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Subject: Secrecy Opinions rss

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John Eno
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I think that this has intentionally been left fuzzy by the game designers, in order to allow individual groups to decide for themselves. I am curious about how other groups play through this situation, though.

Here's the scenario.

1) I scout the destination deck and leave the card on top.
2) We jump.
3a) The admiral chooses the other card and puts the one I saw on the bottom. Am I allowed to say that he didn't choose the card I left on the deck? I know I can't reveal any information about what was on the card that's now on the bottom of the deck.
3b) The admiral chooses the card I left there. Am I allowed to confirm that this was the card I left there?

Is it public knowledge which of the two cards the admiral chooses; ie, does everyone know whether he chose the top card or the one after it, or is he supposed to shuffle them so that this information is kept secret? If it's public knowledge, the questions above are moot.

The same scenario can come up with scouting the crisis deck and having Roslin in play, of course.

[cross-posted to FFG forums)
 
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Andre
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I guess it would be allowed to accuse him that he dropped a good card. I think a good rule of thumb is not get so detailed that the other players know that you just saw that particular card.

Like when looking in your first game at the loyalty cards the cylons sometimes reveal themselves because they need to grin or read the card too long which immediately gets them....

 
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Matt Davis
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I mean, certainly the Admiral can look at the card that you left on top an immediately call you a Cylon. I don't see what's stopping you from seeing the destination they choose and make the same accusation toward them. I think that extends to say that you can accuse the Admiral of not using the better destination that you left on top.
 
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Trevor Schadt
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kushiel wrote:
3a) The admiral chooses the other card and puts the one I saw on the bottom. Am I allowed to say that he didn't choose the card I left on the deck? I know I can't reveal any information about what was on the card that's now on the bottom of the deck.


I believe you are, yes, as long as you don't reveal anything more about the card than "it was good and he buried it" -- regardless of whether it's the truth. Of course, the Admiral -- also regardless of whether it's the truth -- is allowed to say "Oh, trust me, only a dirty frakking toaster would have wanted the card that that traitor left on top of the deck. Really, you can just go ahead and reveal now, you frakking Cylon."

kushiel wrote:
3b) The admiral chooses the card I left there. Am I allowed to confirm that this was the card I left there?


Again, I believe the answer is yes.

kushiel wrote:
Is it public knowledge which of the two cards the admiral chooses; ie, does everyone know whether he chose the top card or the one after it, or is he supposed to shuffle them so that this information is kept secret? If it's public knowledge, the questions above are moot.


That one, I don't know the answer to.
 
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I'd say it can be either. Depends on group dynamics. The admiral can always just shuffle both cards underneath the table. I dont believe anything forbids that.
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Eric Engstrom
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Acenoid wrote:

Like when looking in your first game at the loyalty cards the cylons sometimes reveal themselves because they need to grin or read the card too long which immediately gets them....


yea, I run into this issue when I introduce new players. So I institute a mandatory 15 second reading of player loyalty cards initially and at the sleeper phase to be fair.
 
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Eric Engstrom
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We usually broaden the secrecy rules.

Loyalty cards: you can't show, but you can talk about them openly. This talk may be truth or lies.

Skill cards: You can NOT say what numbers you have. You can qualitatively mention "low" "medium" or "high" values. You can make allusions to cards: "I can repair this turn," or "I can boost the die roll." These allusions may be truth or lies.

Quorum: You can only allude, like: "I can try to raise food," or "I can put Tigh in the brig." These allusions may be truth or lies.

Destination: We never allow you to say the name of the card you saw, but you can refer to the effects or qualitatively compare:
1) "The other card was awful; we would be unable to scout."
2) "Hey! The Admiral didn't choose my card, which was much better!"
3) "The other card cost more fuel."
These references may be truth or lies.
 
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Pieter
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bungeeboy wrote:
1) "The other card was awful; we would be unable to scout."
2) "Hey! The Admiral didn't choose my card, which was much better!"
3) "The other card cost more fuel."
These references may be truth or lies.

You can play however you want, of course, but I think this is forbidden by the secrecy rules. From such remarks, if you know the cards a bit 9 and there aren't many), you can easily deduce what the card glanced was, or at least what the player making the remarks claims it was. And as you are not allowed to give details of the card, you cannot make statements as you suggest. That is why we usually discuss what the person who is scouting should do before he sees the card. After seeing the card, no more discussion, the card is buried or not and the scouter remains silent. If it is a location, and it is left on top, then the scouter is allowed to make a statement to the effect that he believes that the admiral is a traitor because the card he picked is worse than the one on top, or that the admiral can be trusted because the card is better or at least as good as the one on top.
 
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John Eno
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I got an answer from Corey regarding this question. Here was his response:

"You MAY say that he went did not go to the destination that you scouted, and even claim that yours was better. You may NOT however give specific information about the location you saw. The main reason for this is that players who are new to the game would not be able to make a bluff.

"Example: First time game with a new player. He scouts and tells everyone that the location causes them to lose 3 fuel. The experienced players know he is telling the truth because how else would he know that this card existed?"
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