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Subject: You loose soliders *every* turn? rss

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Matt Thrower
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Have I understood correctly that every single turn you loose a number of soliders equal to the defence value of the area you're currently in? This would seem to be what the rules state, but doesn't it make the game actually impossible?

Consider. Let's imagine you spend three turns in the first area and advance on each subsequent turn. That's going to cost you a total of 71 troops, minimum, assuming you have an engineer to avoid landmines and roll a 1 on every MG dice.

Let's further assume that every turn you manage to roll a minimum of 3 4 results on the dice, gaining you at least six soliders. Of course, there are other results - tools to use, stars to collect for specialist troops, the occasional RWB bonus on so forth so let's be generous and up that to a total of eight per turn. Eight soliders per turn over eight turns is 64 - making it impossible to win.

Of course you can hang around in sectors if you want to, but once you're on to the third sector you're going to be loosing as many soldiers each turn as you gain under optimum conditions anyway, so you probably wouldn't bother.

Am I playing this right? Or have I misunderstood something?
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Clement Tey
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MattDP wrote:

Consider. Let's imagine you spend three turns in the first area and advance on each subsequent turn. That's going to cost you a total of 71 troops, minimum, assuming you have an engineer to avoid landmines and roll a 1 on every MG dice.

If you assume that you have the medic by the time you reach sector 2, it's only going to cost you 66 men. (3+3+3+5+7+10+15+20)
MattDP wrote:

Let's further assume that every turn you manage to roll a minimum of 3 4 results on the dice, gaining you at least six soliders. Of course, there are other results - tools to use, stars to collect for specialist troops, the occasional RWB bonus on so forth so let's be generous and up that to a total of eight per turn. Eight soliders per turn over eight turns is 64 - making it impossible to win.

Rolling a RWB of 4s will gain you 12 soldiers. Over 8 turns, that makes 96 soldiers!
MattDP wrote:

Of course you can hang around in sectors if you want to, but once you're on to the third sector you're going to be loosing as many soldiers each turn as you gain under optimum conditions anyway, so you probably wouldn't bother.

Not true. Under optimum conditions of a RWB of 4s, you gain 12 soldiers each turn. Which means you are still potentially gaining soldiers in Sector 7.
MattDP wrote:

Am I playing this right? Or have I misunderstood something?

You haven't misunderstood anything. Just that you underestimated the power of the Medic, and RWB. With the right specialists (Officer & Noncom), your chances of rolling a RWB is improved.

I'm working on a walkthrough now. Check back in 10 minutes and hopefully it's up then.
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Matt Thrower
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princemousey wrote:
I'm working on a walkthrough now. Check back in 10 minutes and hopefully it's up then.


OK, thanks. I'd rather work the strategy out by myself as much as possible although I can see a walkthrough would be useful! I'm just trying to check that I'm playing the game right - since I am it is clear, as you say, that the focus has to be 100% on getting men and getting whatever specialists and equipment you need to make sure you get as many as possible through RWB bonuses.
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Davide Banchini c/o SELED
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Yes you are right, every turn the number on DEF is the number of soldiers lost in a sector.

Yes, it's hard but possible to win, consider these 2 key items:
- bangalore, reduce the DEF to 0 (not bunker) best used to higher sectors
- flamethrower, reduce the bunker DEF by 10

plus, manipulating dice colors or result (by officer or binoculars/strategic map) to get as often as possible
the RWB Reinforcements. I read elsewhere that the game
designer usually get the officer as one of the first
specialists, I believe it's for being able to get more easily
the reinforcements. (Actually is useful to get any RWB)

A little (but reliable) asset could also be the medic.
Furthermore you can save soldiers if you manage to get a Hero AND enough courage points.

Just my 2 cents tactic, hope it helps.
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Aaron Silverman
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Having tried once, and playing wrong for part of it (I was accidentally rolling 7 dice for a few turns, and left the first area a turn early), I am thinking that getting a dice-changing specialist is key, 'cause you really need those 3 and 4 RWB bonuses if you want to get very far.
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Clement Tey
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Don't worry, Matt. My way to victory is just one of the possible ways. There are so many possible other combinations!
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Emmanuel Aquin
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Hey, Matt!

The game is certainly not impossible, as the high scores thread will attest (Maurits has managed a mighty 89 VP, Brent and Jim have both scored 81).

Soldiers seem to pile up very quickly once you get the Officer/Noncom/Veteran thing going. And there are Items to get you out of a tight spot (Walkie-Talkie/Field Radio, Mine Detector, etc).

I believe a 1/3 victory ratio is to be expected (give or take), which is what I was aiming for. In multiplayer, I think your chances are slightly better (the multiplayer Officer is one powerful dude).

E
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Jimmy Lin
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how many turns do you guys spend in the very first sector? With such a low defense value in the first sector (3) isn't it possible to just turtle there and keep gaining resources? (soldiers, items, courage, etc.)
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Jimmy Lin
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BeachBoy3000 wrote:
how many turns do you guys spend in the very first sector? With such a low defense value in the first sector (3) isn't it possible to just turtle there and keep gaining resources? (soldiers, items, courage, etc.)


I will answer my own question since I just found the rule that I missed, you can spend a maximum of three turns in anyone sector.
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Maik Stich
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If it is a standard strategy to get the officer first wouldnt it be interesting to increase its cost by one?

Just a random thought.
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Emmanuel Aquin
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Maik_Stich wrote:
If it is a standard strategy to get the officer first wouldnt it be interesting to increase its cost by one?


Well, it's my strategy, but I don't think it's the "standard" strategy. And even though I really try to get the Officer as soon as possible, it often takes me 6 or 7 turns to get him. Making the Officer cost 5 would be very cruel, I believe.

Also, there's the Medal strategy (which converts any 1 Soldier into the Specialist of your choice), so you can concentrate on the little Specialists (like the very useful noncom) and get yourself an Officer with the Medal (whatever his cost).

Balancing this game is a tricky thing: many find it WAY too difficult, and others think it's quite easy once they get the hang of it. That's why the Gold Beach map has 2 different starting options (and the Victoria Cross)...



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Maik Stich
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I agree with your words. I just think a good game allows differen ways to win. It shouldn't be easy to win of course.

I haven't played Gold Beach yet, but just from looking at it it seems to be alot more interesting in the long run. The split starting space already gives different starting options. Certainly the right way to go (- dont get me wrong ... its a good game already and I really enjoy the concept and my first few games).

Maybe this is a way to keep going. Looking forward to see more good stuff.

How viable is the sharpshooter btw? Considering other ways to start with. Either a tech route or sth like the sharpshooter. Especially the direct comparison between a sharpshooter and the noncom seems off. Sth like decreasing the DEF by 1 if you "advance" could make him more worthwhile or maybe make a d3 out of the machinegun fire as he keeps them in cover. OR add a tech which allows to take out a machinegun while you have a sharpshooter.

Just some quick ideas.
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Emmanuel Aquin
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Hey, Maik, thanks for the ideas!

Yes, the Sharpshooter is not the best Specialist around (hence his cost of 2), but there are many times when you wish you had him (when you are Skulls-prone, like I can be, sometimes). I almost gave him a cost of 1, but that would have been too easy.

The Noncom, with his special ability, should cost more, but I deliberately kept him cheap to give players a fighting chance (I see him as a poor man's Officer). Of course, it would be normal to recruit a Noncom before a Sharpshooter (except when, on Omaha, you just need to go to Sector 6).

When you need to sacrifice 1 Specialist, the Sharpshooter is always a good choice

Your other ideas are interesting. I could maybe do an Item (the Rifle Scope) which would ignore Machine-Gun Fire for 1 turn when you have a Sharpshooter.

But then again, the Sharpshooter will not always be there. I have about 12 more Specialists in reserve, which I will release with every coming Battle Map (some Maps may have more than 1 unique Specialist). Some have pretty cool effects (and yes, the Sniper is one of them), and I have an equal number of unreleased Items.

Also, I'm working on a different kind of Battle Map, called Overlord, that would be randomly generated, and would include random Specialists.

E

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Felix Rodriguez
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MattDP wrote:

Let's imagine you spend three turns in the first area and advance on each subsequent turn. That's going to cost you a total of 71 troops, minimum, assuming you have an engineer to avoid landmines and roll a 1 on every MG dice.

Let's further assume that every turn you manage to roll a minimum of 3 4 results on the dice, gaining you at least six soliders. Of course, there are other results - tools to use, stars to collect for specialist troops, the occasional RWB bonus on so forth so let's be generous and up that to a total of eight per turn. Eight soliders per turn over eight turns is 64 - making it impossible to win.

Of course you can hang around in sectors if you want to, but once you're on to the third sector you're going to be loosing as many soldiers each turn as you gain under optimum conditions anyway, so you probably wouldn't bother.

Am I playing this right? Or have I misunderstood something?


Matt, I think 3 turns on first area and advancing after that is a terrible idea. But lets use your example anyway:

You supposedly need 71 troops. And you can only get 64. Now lets say you bought and used the Torpedo when in the second to last location. That cuts you down 16 troops (15 + 1 MG roll). Now you only need 55 troops. Lets say you also bought a flame thrower. Now you only need 45 troops!

Now lets say you got a medic. He saves one guy per turn. Thats 8 total. Which leaves you with 37 required troops! Not too bad.

If anything I think the first scenario is too easy, although I'm having a blast playing it anyway. Going to try the second scenario this weekend - it looks like it's much harder...

Amiral, I much prefer the idea of pre-defined scenarios that have different strategies over a scenario maker. Well designed scenarios beat generic ones any day.
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