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Subject: Why is trashing good? rss

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Judit Szepessy
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We got Dominion about two weeks ago and love the game. However, I would like to get some insight and wisdom about trashing. Why is it good and when do you trash?
 
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Carsten ◄► Wesel
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judoka wrote:
We got Dominion about two weeks ago and love the game. However, I would like to get some insight and wisdom about trashing. Why is it good and when do you trash?


Do you like to have Copper in the end game? No! OK, trash it.
Do you need any victory cards at the start of the game? No! OK, trash it.
Do you need curses? No! OK, trash them.

Any further questions?

edit #1: spelling
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Judit Szepessy
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That is true. I am just sad to see victory cards going , even at the beginning of the game.
Thanks! Good points.
 
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Ken Armstrong
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Also if you bought to many action cards and need to get rid of some of them.shake
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Mark Farr
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It's nice to see an "ordinary" Dominion question. It makes someone like me, who has played it less than 10 times, and always casually with new players, feel a little closer to "normal".

With so many Dominion discussions ending up (or even starting) with mathematical and/or statistical notation and terminology, it's easy to feel that it is not a fun card game at all, but rather a mathematical challenge to be taken very seriously. It's nice to know there are others out there still getting to know the game, taking it easy, having fun.

I hope you have many more enjoyable games of Dominion.


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Branko K.
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judoka wrote:
We got Dominion about two weeks ago and love the game. However, I would like to get some insight and wisdom about trashing. Why is it good and when do you trash?


(1=Copper, E=Estate)

This is your current deck: 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,E,E,E

This is your opponent's deck: 1,1,1,1,1,1,1

What will your next two hands look like? How about your opponent's?


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Judit Szepessy
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Quote:
What will your next two hands look like? How about your opponent's?


Hm, yes, exactly. Excellent questions!
Thanks!
 
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Blorb Plorbst
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Ceryon is right on the money. Get the useless cards out of your hand early so that you're only drawing the ones you want. It's called deck thinning.

I thin mercilessly and love to see a chapel on the board. I'll buy it and a silver early on. I have no qualms about trashing my whole hand and buying nothing! It means that I'll be pulling handfuls of silver while others pull copper. Couple it with a mine and now you're pulling gold.

Just be careful about over thinning! You still need to have some money sources in your hand (I learned that the hard way blush )

Though I once lost to a player who trashed all of his copper with a moneylender and bought festivals with the boon. Then he'd play a bunch of festivals for cash. nice combo.
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Craig Liken
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judoka wrote:
We got Dominion about two weeks ago and love the game. However, I would like to get some insight and wisdom about trashing. Why is it good and when do you trash?


Like Tobold I think this is a great question - and you have got some good answers.

I have never played a collectible card game (CCG) in my life so when I bought Dominion I had no real experience of a game where you manipulate a deck. Maybe you haven't either?

I think for anyone that hasn't had experience in this type of game, trashing cards is counterintuitive - "so I want to throw away buying power and/or victory points that I start with?" "Why the heck would I want to do that?" Most people when they first play see chapel and say - "what a pointless card - I might perhaps buy that if someone had witch and was cursing me, but otherwise it doesn't do anything for me".

Anyway - just my thoughts. Next time Chapel is in play, buy it and be ruthless with it - see what happens.

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B C Z
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Something else to consider:

With a smaller deck, any given card is going to be seen more often because you are reshuffling earlier than your opponents.

With a smaller deck, you will be cycling new purchases into your draw pile faster because you are reshuffling earlier than your opponents.
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Shane Is Board
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Brief sidenote, another great thing about this thread is how everyone is answering the question and being nice about it, awesome!

Anyway, not a lot more to add about trashing and it's uses, seems to be pretty well covered, the only other question is "when". Generally speaking trashing will be more useful near the beginning of the game to whittle your deck down to a powerhouse, but occasionally late game it can be handy (moreso with curses than anything else) to try and speed up a clogged deck; pick out some actions that you don't need or some such.

Realistically though, trimming the deck with trashing is most useful early on.
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Todd McCorkle
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http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/2645303#2645303

Valerie Putman, one of the main playtesters/developers of Dominion, wrote about her "chapel deck". It might give you good insight to the benefits of trashing, although the previous posters here did a good job summarizing that.

I have to warn you first though, you might have more fun figuring out how to make a chapel deck yourself.
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Judit Szepessy
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Quote:
"Why the heck would I want to do that?"


Exactly that was my line of thinking! No, I have not played a collectible card game before, you are right. I will try Chapel next time more ruthlessly! Last time I bought Chapel but resolved it only once.

Thanks all of you for your help! Much appreciated.
 
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Jennifer Schlickbernd
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Keep in mind that the corollary to this question is "why don't I buy copper anytime I have an extra buy since coppers are free?" The reason you don't do this is because putting additional copper in your deck makes it a lot more difficult to get larger amounts of treasure in your hand at the same time. There's a guy I know who doesn't understand this principle and therefore rarely wins at Dominion. He can never get 8 coins at once in his hand because he's always drawing a bunch of copper and a stray silver or gold. So be sure not to add copper into your deck unless you have a specific strategy in mind, like Gardens.
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Steven Metzger
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I love to Chapel.
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David Whelan
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I'm pretty new to Dominion and think the Chapel looks great but the game goes too quickly for me to end up actually making use of it. I'm probably not being ruthless enough. My last plan (using the starting 10 cards as I was teaching someone) was to get only a few gold, chapel everything else but victory points, then get an adventurer so I could cycle through everything to just get the gold. Worked out too late and I lost to someone I thought was clogging their hand.
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Timothy Hunt
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Not being ruthless enough is indeed the problem. Assuming there are no attack cards that can trash your treasure for you, you should count carefully your treasures.

Open with chapel/silver, regardless of split. Trash everything, except that silver and one copper, unless you get a hand without the chapel that enables you to buy a silver. Once you have 2 silvers, trash all your coppers, and buy golds. Once you have two golds, you can trash your silvers, and work from there, building your tight deck according to the other cards available.

The apparent pain of trashing coppers meaning you can't buy this turn makes such a huge impact on your deck size that it's much better in the long run.
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Aphicha Phawapaphawin
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baba44713 wrote:
judoka wrote:
We got Dominion about two weeks ago and love the game. However, I would like to get some insight and wisdom about trashing. Why is it good and when do you trash?


(1=Copper, E=Estate)

This is your current deck: 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,E,E,E

This is your opponent's deck: 1,1,1,1,1,1,1

What will your next two hands look like? How about your opponent's?




The victory of the game is up to victory cards. isn't it?

I usually offer the opponents for handicap.
I offer them 7 estates instead of 3 in the 10 cards starting deck. So, they will have start victory than me.
devil devil devil
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Branko K.
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neophyte2 wrote:
My last plan (using the starting 10 cards as I was teaching someone) was to get only a few gold, chapel everything else but victory points,.


Chapel everything BUT victory points??

You might reconsider your strategy a bit...
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Judit Szepessy
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Thanks for all your advice! Much appreciated! We all started trashing now in the family and are getting used to it!
 
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Trevor Schadt
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It definitely takes a few plays using a streamline strategy to get into the hang of it. Try using a set that includes both Chapel and Remodel, and you'll start seeing your deck get better by leaps and bounds.

The real trick of a streamline strategy is to figure out what the "average value" of the cards in your deck are. It's tricky, because that's a subjective thing: it's not how much the card costs, or how many victory points it's worth, or whatever: it's a personal judgment call of how much good the card does in your deck. Then, you use the Chapels to get rid of cards that are below that "average value," so that your "average value" goes UP.

As an example: at the beginning of the game, your Estates are clogging your deck, so use a Chapel and/or a Remodel to get rid of them. As you go on, buying and/or improving cards, your Coppers will soon fall beneath that "average value." So, once you have a few Silvers and/or Golds in your deck, start Chapelling away your Coppers so that you draw your Silvers more often. Soon you'll be buying Golds every turn, so start Chapelling away your now-less-valuable Silvers after you have a few of those, so you'll be drawing your Golds more often. If Cellar or Adventurer are in play, be sure to get a few of those, so you can start blowing past the Provinces you'll find yourself buying to make sure you'll always have enough money to buy another Province on your turn. You'll be swimming in points, while your opponents are floundering with having three or four Action cards in their hand and maybe 3 or 4 buying power, and only one Action they can play.
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Christopher Dearlove
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DeltaAlphaBravo wrote:
How'd you get rid of your chapel and your opponent has bought nothing for at least 3 rounds?

Only joking! It is a valid point even if the decks aren't possible (to my knowlege).


You can get rid of your chapel with an island.

Your opponent could be deeply, deeply, stupid. He doesn't have to buy anything.
 
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