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Talisman (Revised 4th Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Has the use of counters changed in the revised 4th edition? rss

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Universal Head
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It's been a while, but I always thought that you took counters equal to your Strength and Craft at the start of the game. Now it seems, you only take them to keep track of additions to your starting values.

Which is fine, but it seems inconsistent as you *do* take counters to mark your lives.

Kind of weird ... was this changed?
 
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Bart de Groot
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No, this is how you do things in revised 4th edition as well. The big difference between lives and strength/craft is that the value on the card is a minimum for strength/craft, whereas lives can go to 0.
 
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OK, in revised 4th edition you take counters for Strength and Craft OVER your initial starting values. So if you have a printed Strength of 4 and you later get 2 extra Str, you have 2 Str counters (and a total Str of 6).

The only other edition I have on hand is first edition, and certainly in that one you start with counters equal to your starting values. So if you have a printed Strength of 4 you start with 4 counters. The printed values are just a reminder of your minimums; you keep track of totals with counters.

I still think they've changed the way this has always worked for the latest version, and it still feels inconsistent. Anyone?
 
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Simon Lundström
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I take glass beads the number of strength/craft starting values. And lives and such. I've always done so, and I don't see why you don't. There isn't a shortage of tokens, at least not for me. It should be obvious for everyone around the table how strong and crafty the charas are, and if a troll starts with 6 strength, it should show.

My few cents.
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Thanks. I realise I can do what I want, I'm just curious if anyone knows when this was changed. And I wonder why.
 
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Ed Browne
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Zimeon wrote:
I take glass beads the number of strength/craft starting values. And lives and such. I've always done so, and I don't see why you don't. There isn't a shortage of tokens, at least not for me. It should be obvious for everyone around the table how strong and crafty the charas are, and if a troll starts with 6 strength, it should show.

My few cents.


I use cones for total Strength and Craft, and even put cones on magic items and followers so anyone can look across the table and see how much total Strength and Craft a person has very quickly.
 
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Ed Browne
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UniversalHead wrote:
Thanks. I realise I can do what I want, I'm just curious if anyone knows when this was changed. And I wonder why.


I believe it changed with the BI version, and FFG went along with it.

Why? It could be as simple as GW not wanting to worry about as many components. Don't count the starting stats and you don't need to worry about making as many cones.
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Grimstax wrote:
I believe it changed with the BI version, and FFG went along with it.

Why? It could be as simple as GW not wanting to worry about as many components. Don't count the starting stats and you don't need to worry about making as many cones.


The BI edition also uses the counters with hard-to-read numbers on them. So finding out how much strength another character has is not so simple as looking over and counting the counters; you're going to have to just ask them. At that point, there's no reason to take counters for the starting values.

We actually play with the BI counters, but ignoring the stamped numbers and treating all the counters as 1. With that approach, it might be sensible to take starting value counters again, but we don't in order to avoid running out of counters.

If you have the FFG cones, I see no reason not to go back to the old way.
 
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Ian Kelly
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Grimstax wrote:
I use cones for total Strength and Craft, and even put cones on magic items and followers so anyone can look across the table and see how much total Strength and Craft a person has very quickly.


Purely out of curiosity, do you have a system for easily distinguishing between Strength that only applies during combat and Strength that applies all the time?
 
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Aaron Tubb
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The FFG edition is the first one where you don't take counters at the start of the game. The BI version was nearly a straight reprint of 2nd edition; they even copied/pasted most of the manual, even though the example about carrying objects with mules didn't apply anymore because they changed them to 'followers'.

I believe the reason you don't track starting values is that there is that all cones count as "1" and they would run out quick in large games if everyone took their starting values. There were more than enough BI counters for everyone, even if you count them all as "1".

Peristarkawan wrote:
Grimstax wrote:
I use cones for total Strength and Craft, and even put cones on magic items and followers so anyone can look across the table and see how much total Strength and Craft a person has very quickly.


Purely out of curiosity, do you have a system for easily distinguishing between Strength that only applies during combat and Strength that applies all the time?

I don't. I just put strength markers on everything that adds strength (in combat or not). And then make sure not to add the 'combat only' bonuses outside of combat. It works because strength checks outside of combat are pretty rare.
 
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Ed Browne
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Peristarkawan wrote:
Grimstax wrote:
I use cones for total Strength and Craft, and even put cones on magic items and followers so anyone can look across the table and see how much total Strength and Craft a person has very quickly.


Purely out of curiosity, do you have a system for easily distinguishing between Strength that only applies during combat and Strength that applies all the time?


Not an "easy" way. Usually it's pretty easy to remember. I don't recall this being too big a problem.

I forgot that the BI edition had the difficult to read counters.

We've never had a problem with not enough cones (especially using the big ones as "5"), but we usually play with 3 or less players.
 
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I have the BI edition with the upgrade, so no cones (sno cones?).

After I got some Treehouse stashes, we started using those to keep score. Smalls pyramids = 1pt. Medium = 2. Large = 3. Works well and the colors match.
 
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Throw out the annoying plastic chips and there are not even close to enough cones, so don't bother.

An inexpensive alternative to the crap that comes with the game--use a cheap set of poker chips: there are super cheap Red/White/Blue/Gold sets around, some with a cheap plastic caddy. Place the total (natural) combined Strength/Craft/Fate/Gold/Life in the appropriate spaces next to the character card so people don't have to constantly ask you how much you have. Stack them in fives, then when you get 10+ create a new stack on top of the two fives.

Place Craft/Strength on objects that give Craft/Strength bonuses (not weapons though as they don't add to your natural strength or craft, only in combat).

Part of the game is playing as fast as you possibly can and minimizing questions so stacking your chips properly is a courtesy.

Also-- remember to only turn in experience for Strength/Craft when you absolutely need it and try to hold on to all you can in experience cards once you get to 8+ so you minimize the damage the deluge of late-game 'Random' spells. People may ask your strength or craft, but I have never had a player ask me what my experience was-- let them find out the hard way!
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littlemute wrote:
Throw out the annoying plastic chips and there are not even close to enough cones, so don't bother.


What? I have never had a problem with running out. Are you building your characters far further than you need to go for the crown?

littlemute wrote:

Also-- remember to only turn in experience for Strength/Craft when you absolutely need it and try to hold on to all you can in experience cards once you get to 8+ so you minimize the damage the deluge of late-game 'Random' spells. People may ask your strength or craft, but I have never had a player ask me what my experience was-- let them find out the hard way!


That's a good point, but remember that you can only trade in your experience at the END of your turn. So if you suddenly find you need more Strength or Craft to do something, it is too late to do anything about it.
 
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