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Middle-Earth Quest» Forums » Variants

Subject: Combining with War of the Ring (+ expansion) rss

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Sam Butler
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In the review here, the author mentions possibly linking MEQ and War of the Ring.

This is an interesting idea that I would like to expand upon. (Keep in mind I have not yet played MEQ, but I have played War of the Ring extensively.) For sake of discussion, I would like to consider War of the Ring + Expansion, focusing on the Strategy Game of War of the Ring.

The way I see Middle Earth Quest, there are actually what I would consider 4 types of victory/loss:

(1) Shadow Major Victory (no final battle)
(2) Shadow Minor Victory (Shadow wins final battle)
(3) Hero Minor Victory (Heroes win final battle)
(4) Hero Major Victory (no final battle)

Since WotR + expansion slightly favors the Fellowship, I choose Hero Minor Victory as the normal setup for War of the Ring.

Ideas for modifying War of the Ring + expansion setup (not playtested):

Shadow Major Victory: Fellowship starts in Bree. Only Strider and the Hobbits are in the Fellowship, the other players are out of the game. FSP must declare in Rivendell to get the other companions to join the game. (An alternate idea I considered was Fellowship starts in The Shire with only the Hobbits, and with the FSP movement token on 1, so they have left the Shire in any direction, but I think that may be too harsh.)

Shadow Minor Victory: Fellowship starts in Bree with movement token on 2 (so they have moved 2 spaces from Bree, which means they are 1 space from Rivendell); only Strider and Hobbits are in the Fellowship, the other players are out of the game. FSP must declare in Rivendell to get the other companions to join the game.

Hero Minor Victory: Normal Setup

Hero Major Victory: Normal Setup, plus FSP movement starts on Space #1 (so they have moved 1 space from Rivendell already)

Thoughts?
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Drake Coker
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Fun idea! I'll try it out once my WotR arrives early next year.
 
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Sam Butler
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If you just play the base game War of the Ring, then you should modify it slightly. The base game favors the Shadow somewhat.

The opening post is for the base game with its expansion.

For the base game alone, I would recommend:

Sauron Major Victory: Start FSP at Bree with marker on 2, just hobbits & Strider in FSP, and declare in Rivendell to get the rest of the gang

Sauron Minor Victory: Normal setup

Hero Minor Victory: Normal setup with marker on #1 spot of movement track

Hero Major Victory: Normal setup with marker on #2 spot of movement track

The distinction is that experts at WotR insist the base game favors the Shadow, and the game with its expansion favors the Free Peoples.

None of this has been playtested, so this may need adjustments. I will try to test out some of these combos over the next couple of weeks, since it only requires WotR...and hopefully for Christmas I will have MEQ!
 
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dave
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Just a small comment on this otherwise great idea.

butsam wrote:
The distinction is that experts at WotR insist the base game favors the Shadow, and the game with its expansion favors the Free Peoples.


I'm not sure who the "experts" are, but I would say that the shadow still has an advantage over the free in the expansion, although not quite as much as in the base game.



Great, now I have to look into this MEQ.

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Sam Butler
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That may actually be true; I know the initial impression of the expansion on the boards were that the game now favored the FP slightly, but public opinion on the board by people well-versed in the game may have shifted; I don't frequent the TotTA board as much these days.

If the consensus now is that the base game still favors the Shadow slightly, we can just follow the 3rd post suggestion (my 2nd post) for the rules for combining.

I will note that the official game rules for MEQ do not make any distinction between major and minor victories, but it is widely acknowledged on this board that victory by final battle just doesn't feel as gratifying as victory by dominating your opponent throughout the game. So, I made a distinction, even though the game rules do not.

Oh, and sorry for the $50+ dollar hit your pocketbook is going to take now....

In the meantime, if you want to playtest any of these ideas, I would appreciate the feedback--that does not require MEQ to do. I particularly think the Shadow Major Victory may make the CotR come out more frequently, being available essentially from the beginning of the game... but the Shadow has to earn it by performing very well in MEQ!

I think ideally the following very rough percentages should be followed:

Shadow Major in MEQ = 60-70% chance of Shadow victory in WotR
Shadow Minor in MEQ = 50-60% chance of Shadow victory in WotR
Heroes Minor in MEQ = 40-50% chance of Shadow victory in WotR
Heroes Major in MEQ = 30-40% chance of Shadow victory in WotR

That way, MEQ matters enough to incentivize good play during MEQ, but doesn't completely determine the victory in WotR...otherwise, why play WotR?
 
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Rene Wenzel
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maybe you can make the bonuses more thematic concerning the different story markers.

If Sauron has a major victory and

the yellow story marker is in the final position, the FP starts with perhaps 3 corruption.
the red marker is in the final position, sauron gets 3 additional elite units in three different armies.
the black marker is in the final position, all peoples are inactive and can only be activated by attacks of the SP.
all marker are over "the shadow falls", the FP starts with 1 corruption, Sauron gets one additional elite army and one people only can only be activated by attacks of SP (SP choice).

If Sauron has a minor victory and
the yellow story marker is the right-most, FP gets one corruption.
the red story marker is the right-most, sauron gets one additional elite unit.
the black marker is the right-most, one people can only be activated by attack of sauron (SP choice).

If the heroes have a minor victory and
the yellow story marker is the left-most, FP starts with one distance for the fellowship.
the red story marker is the left-most, sauron gets one elite unit less.
the black marker is the left-most, one people is activated (FP choice).

If the heroes have a major victory and
the yellow story marker is the left-most, FP starts with two distance for the fellowship.
the red story marker is the left-most, sauron gets two elite units less.
the black marker is the left-most, two peoples are activated (FP choice).

This variant is not playtested!!
 
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Alex Rockwell
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butsam wrote:

I think ideally the following very rough percentages should be followed:

Shadow Major in MEQ = 60-70% chance of Shadow victory in WotR
Shadow Minor in MEQ = 50-60% chance of Shadow victory in WotR
Heroes Minor in MEQ = 40-50% chance of Shadow victory in WotR
Heroes Major in MEQ = 30-40% chance of Shadow victory in WotR

That way, MEQ matters enough to incentivize good play during MEQ, but doesn't completely determine the victory in WotR...otherwise, why play WotR?


I agree.

Also the modifications to WotR should be thematic based on the outcome of MEQ. How did Sauron win, was it via all three markers, or a certain one? This should effect the setup. Red victroy should give better military start, yellow should push back the fellowship, and black should provide some other bonuses? Something like that.



I have posted my variant for this!
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/4336644#4336644

 
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Sam Butler
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I like your variant!!! For those who don't know Alex, he is the WotR rock star expert, I trust his opinion a ton on current balance and many other issues; he probably has the best idea of anyone on how to tweak WotR based on outcome. Rene also had the great idea (also used by Alex) to vary based on victory type. I'm lovin' it!!! Can;t wait to try that variant!
 
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