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Subject: Question about the low ratings rss

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Stefano Castelli
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I've noticed that lots of "1" appeared in the ratings of Warhammer Invasion, usually without any comment.

Is this part of the protest against Games Workshop?

If so... guys... don't you think it is quite idiot? I mean, I feel it is an idiot move rating a game "1" because it is published by Games Workshop, but in this case is even worst, as the publisher is Fantasy Flight...
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It is idiotic regardless who the publisher is.
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Jon Day
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'Whats with all the no Comment one ratings?'

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/469252
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Stefano Castelli
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cscottk wrote:
It is idiotic regardless who the publisher is.


Yep. That's a bad way of protesting.
 
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Stefano Castelli
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jond wrote:

'Whats with all the no Comment one ratings?'

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/469252


Whhooops. And I even searched before posting...
 
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Dave Kudzma
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Given that the publisher is FF, and the designer is a good one "IMHO" I don't care whose universe it is
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Sean Shaw
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I don't have a problem with protesting via this way. I would imagine GW has some sway in with FFG's design anyways, and if that's how one expresses their opinion, so be it. I suppose it would be especially pertinent if GW's actions make it so you don't want to play any property ever associated with them again (regardless of who the designer is) and hence perhaps a 1 or 2 rating for any game taking place in a GW universe.

If that's their way of expression, then so be it. It's far better than any violent means of expression, and if people are complaining about the number of threads in relation to GW's actions, well a rating is FAR less intrusive then a thread...ESPECIALLY a thread devoted to complaining how someone else is rating a game.

Of which type of thread I suppose I just contributed too.
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I think it's utterly retarded and furthermore, people who do that kind of thing, without at least trying the game first, should have their reviewing privileges completely revoked. Just really stupid.
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Darren Thornton
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The more people moan about what is basically anyone's right to express an opinion in some fashion the more I feel like adding some '1's myself! GW have been courting negative PR for a while and gamers are finally expressing an opinion. You can't be capitalist bullies for over 10 years and not ferment some antagonism.

Course anyone wondering whether its a good game can check the comments, lots of 1's with no comments tell their own story
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GreyLord wrote:
I don't have a problem with protesting via this way. I would imagine GW has some sway in with FFG's design anyways, and if that's how one expresses their opinion, so be it. I suppose it would be especially pertinent if GW's actions make it so you don't want to play any property ever associated with them again (regardless of who the designer is) and hence perhaps a 1 or 2 rating for any game taking place in a GW universe.

If that's their way of expression, then so be it. It's far better than any violent means of expression, and if people are complaining about the number of threads in relation to GW's actions, well a rating is FAR less intrusive then a thread...ESPECIALLY a thread devoted to complaining how someone else is rating a game.

Of which type of thread I suppose I just contributed too.


Yes, but it is a protests GW will never hear or even notice.
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cscottk wrote:
GreyLord wrote:
I don't have a problem with protesting via this way. I would imagine GW has some sway in with FFG's design anyways, and if that's how one expresses their opinion, so be it. I suppose it would be especially pertinent if GW's actions make it so you don't want to play any property ever associated with them again (regardless of who the designer is) and hence perhaps a 1 or 2 rating for any game taking place in a GW universe.

If that's their way of expression, then so be it. It's far better than any violent means of expression, and if people are complaining about the number of threads in relation to GW's actions, well a rating is FAR less intrusive then a thread...ESPECIALLY a thread devoted to complaining how someone else is rating a game.

Of which type of thread I suppose I just contributed too.


Yes, but it is a protests GW will never hear or even notice.


Once again, its the BGG hubris: BGG members (including me sometimes) seem to believe they are single handedly swaying board, card and miniature game sales. The easy answer is we don't affect them at all, I still haven't met anyone at the multitude of game stores I frequent, including GW exclusive stores, that even know of BGG, but I try to promote it as a great resource when meeting people into gaming. But to think that rating something a 1 will be something that will affect GW or anyone else's sales or ways of doing business at all is moronic.

"It's far better than any violent means of expression". If there was someone willing to become violent over this, thats just pathetic. Get a new hobby.

EDIT: 2 Wolverines, one answer, hahahaha.
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Bwian, just
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Weapon wrote:
cscottk wrote:
Yes, but it is a protests GW will never hear or even notice.

Once again, its the BGG hubris: BGG members (including me sometimes) seem to believe they are single handedly swaying board, card and miniature game sales. The easy answer is we don't affect them at all, I still haven't met anyone at the multitude of game stores I frequent, including GW exclusive stores, that even know of BGG, but I try to promote it as a great resource when meeting people into gaming. But to think that rating something a 1 will be something that will affect GW or anyone else's sales or ways of doing business at all is moronic.

The purpose is to influence other BGG members, I think. And since it has now sparked two threads in this non-GW forum, I'd say it has worked. I won't vouch for which way it influenced other BGG members, of course...
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CARL SKUTSCH
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All the silly "1" ratings DID influence me... to change my rating from an 8 to a 9. (I was on the borderline anyway, this just pushed me over).

The problem with the 1 ratings is they may convince someone browsing this site to not buy a game they would otherwise enjoy, and that seems a shame.
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Patrick McInally
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I rated it a 3.5 for reasons I think are quite justified, thank you very much...

Oh, wait -- you're upset at the continued GW protest, not actual low ratings. Silly me!
 
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Definitely dirty pool, and for low-rated games it really hurts.

On a related topic, I've been working on an unofficial Warhammer Quest expansion for the past 9 months and have some preliminary stuff posted to BGG here. I've been steering it well away from any IP conflicts since day one... but the big problem right now is that although none of the rules and very little details about it have been posted to the game entry, the only rantings it has gotten so far are five 1-star ratings, and all in the past week. Ouch, definitely dirty pool and just thoughtless sillyness on the part of other BGGers. Sorry there is a BGGer who really does think the expansion is total crap and deserving of a low rating before ever seeing the content

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What I don't like about protest 1 ratings is that they have a lot more power than "buffing" a score by giving it a 10.

It would be cool if long term members with higher contributions to BGG eventually could earn a new status that allowed them to give games a score of 11. People with 20+ published reviews on the geek, etc.
 
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Stefano Castelli
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ProfToff wrote:
The more people moan about what is basically anyone's right to express an opinion in some fashion the more I feel like adding some '1's myself! GW have been courting negative PR for a while and gamers are finally expressing an opinion. You can't be capitalist bullies for over 10 years and not ferment some antagonism.

Course anyone wondering whether its a good game can check the comments, lots of 1's with no comments tell their own story


I find your answer and some other answer in this thread really poor and empty.

Your are totally missing the point here: Warhammer Invasion is a Fantasy Flight Games production, it comes from a society which has a good relationship with players. To me, a good society. Now, because GW has done something very stupid (according to me), you want to damage a FFG game which is based on a GW property.

This is so stupid I can't even find a proper word to define it.
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Giles Pritchard
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I'm with you Stefano.

In my view punishing FFG for GWs crimes is sad and not particularly intelligent.

FFG is a company that works hard to garner the respect and good will of the gaming community - more than many companies. They have excellent customer service and produce high quality products. For all the geeks here who want to boast about the existence of a 'community' in modern gaming, who want to post about companies not respecting the 'community' - this is what that community does to good companies who support it, this is how FFG are repaid - games they have developed and published with their own money are slandered by the 'community' because of a branding link to a company who have behaved like idiots (insofar as popular opinion would have it).

I think it is crazy. Rate the games on their merits as games, show your opinion of companies through where you choose to shop and what you choose to buy.

My opinion.

Cheers,

Giles.

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Sean Shaw
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Weapon wrote:
cscottk wrote:
GreyLord wrote:
I don't have a problem with protesting via this way. I would imagine GW has some sway in with FFG's design anyways, and if that's how one expresses their opinion, so be it. I suppose it would be especially pertinent if GW's actions make it so you don't want to play any property ever associated with them again (regardless of who the designer is) and hence perhaps a 1 or 2 rating for any game taking place in a GW universe.

If that's their way of expression, then so be it. It's far better than any violent means of expression, and if people are complaining about the number of threads in relation to GW's actions, well a rating is FAR less intrusive then a thread...ESPECIALLY a thread devoted to complaining how someone else is rating a game.

Of which type of thread I suppose I just contributed too.


Yes, but it is a protests GW will never hear or even notice.


Once again, its the BGG hubris: BGG members (including me sometimes) seem to believe they are single handedly swaying board, card and miniature game sales. The easy answer is we don't affect them at all, I still haven't met anyone at the multitude of game stores I frequent, including GW exclusive stores, that even know of BGG, but I try to promote it as a great resource when meeting people into gaming. But to think that rating something a 1 will be something that will affect GW or anyone else's sales or ways of doing business at all is moronic.

"It's far better than any violent means of expression". If there was someone willing to become violent over this, thats just pathetic. Get a new hobby.

EDIT: 2 Wolverines, one answer, hahahaha.


I disagree. Many of the recent redesigns by Hasbro to cater more to the whims of what people state on BGG, but NOT followed by the masses at large seem to indicate at least a few are listening. Most everyone outside of the BGG circles seem to have preferred the old Risk and the old horses, soldiers, heck even the blocks more than the arrows...but then even they are niche as those are more the Risk players than general public I suppose.

But more widespread then the bgg hobby I think...though I have no evidence to back that up other than the people I know.

Many of the recent changes in boardgame design seems to be catering more to some of the whims of BGG, or maybe it's just many of the designers or BGG's themselves and think that way.

Either way I think it really appears as if BGG is having an impact on boardgames, and sometimes for this AT player...not in a good way (take the new risk for example...or the new clue) in my opinion. (or another example, the stupid and ridiculous thing of not including IPC money in the new A&A games, that's catering to a niche group if I ever saw it, by thinking they'll just use poker chips anyways)

Space Hulk may also have been released due to influence by BGG, amongst other things believe it or not. SH had been out of print for a while, and before launching legal actions, many times you have to prepare. To prove that something is infringing on your Copyright, you have to show that you've been supportive of it as well as that such items infringe upon your rights, and that you have NOT allowed it to go into an undefendable position (if someone makes something public for enough time, though you can still take them to court, your position is weakened if you didn't challenge the infringement from the start, which in the case of Space Hulk would be true, many of the infringments had already occurred years prior).

A new release however, means that no matter how small, you can say that it is a product that is in current issue, that it's a new release, and your position in court would be stronger. Hence a call for all items you feel infringe on your license now are easier to issue C&D.

So ironically, as I see it the move to reissue Space Hulk did concern BGG, and was more on a legal standpoint than anything else. The fact that they could make a Lot of money from a limited release was just pudding on the cake.

So, despite how niche it is, I think BGG has a bigger impact upon the boardgame market, at least the creation market, than many may think.
 
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Perfectly valid form of protest. Maybe a good game gets hurt. Maybe a designer loses out. Are Games Workshop not making a single cent off the game released by Fantasy Flight? If so, then it's unfair. Otherwise hurting the sales of this game is perfectly valid. If a good company with good customer attitudes is making some of their money from a product that is earning a bad company money is it not valid to attack that product? Of course it's valid. Maybe this designer and the good company should think about who they do business with in future. Maybe the influence of this site is small. But if people restricted their protests to only those guaranteed to have a huge influence then pretty much no-one would ever protest anything.

Of course if you really want to protest this you should be going after the politicians that sold you out. Games Workshop are merely exploiting the bad laws they created. Still valid to do what you can to hurt the sales of any game from which they make money though.
 
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Stefano Castelli
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kaytel wrote:
Perfectly valid form of protest. Maybe a good game gets hurt. Maybe a designer loses out. Are Games Workshop not making a single cent off the game released by Fantasy Flight? If so, then it's unfair. Otherwise hurting the sales of this game is perfectly valid. If a good company with good customer attitudes is making some of their money from a product that is earning a bad company money is it not valid to attack that product? Of course it's valid.


Hello?

FFG published this game and Chaos Marauders BEFORE the GW Cease and Desist case...

Maybe next time go to them and advice them to hire a fortune-teller BEFORE signing contracts. It would be valid...
 
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kaytel wrote:
Perfectly valid form of protest.[SNIP].


Seriously? You are going to defend nerd rage? Entitled fanbois who get their panties in bunch because a company is exerting their legal rights decide to devalue another companies games because it bought a license from GW, is something you find acceptable. No one is saying they don't have the right to do so, only that it serves no real purpose. BGG users are a single digit percentage point of the game purchasers on this planet. The only people it hurts is there fellow gamers who may skip over a very good product because of their rating.

But you go ahead and keep cheerleading their douchbaggery.
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Castef wrote:
FFG published this game and Chaos Marauders BEFORE the GW Cease and Desist case...

Maybe next time go to them and advice them to hire a fortune-teller BEFORE signing contracts. It would be valid...

Perhaps you can point me to the last year that GW didn't do something to annoy a portion of their client base? No fortune tellers are needed to know that GW is going to tick someone off. If FFG wasn't expecting this sort of thing, they aren't half as connected to the GW Hobby (tm) as I thought they were.

If it wasn't this, it would have been the next semi-annual price increase: the price of bismuth has gone up, you know. Or a lawsuit against the publishers of Future War Commander. Or a rumored revival of Squats. Or...
 
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Quote:
BGG users are a single digit percentage point of the game purchasers on this planet. The only people it hurts is there fellow gamers who may skip over a very good product because of their rating.



I'll disagree. When it comes to niche boardgames that you can't find at Toys R Us BGG is highly influential. Google any of these niche games and BGG is one of the top sites listed. If you have Agricola and live in the US you have been on BGG. If you have Warhammer Invasion, you have been on BGG. Warhammer invasion is a niche boardgame. BGG readers probably make up at least 40-80% of the niche boardgamer population.

I'd probably go as far as saying that without a central internet community to talk about new games FFG would absolutely not survive. The only people buying Warhammer invasion, Chaos in the Old World, Battlestar Galactica are people related in some way to BGG. Looking at the top 100 games I would not know of 95% of them without this website. Without BGG Chaos would not have enough initial sales to justify producing it. BGG is there main form of advertisement. Where would FFG go to successfully advertise their games? In addition advertising here is free. New games need loyal gaming customers and that is what BGG is. This is their core fanbase.

Warhammer is a great game. I enjoy it a great deal. I actually do not care to participate in the 1 ratings protest but I do appreciate this form of consumer activism. I don't understand why people would want to quell their voice. If one does not like the business practices of a company you definitely attack the companies they work with. A group of consumers do not have as big of a voice as a company such as FFG. Let's be honest FFG does not need GW and we would not notice a difference if they used a different IP. FFG should know their business partners better.

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Damon Stone
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Your numbers are imaginary. At none of the game shops I've been to have I found any more than 2-3 people who follow BGG in any way or form and usually none (though I certainly haven't asked everyone). I've played a number of niche games, including W:I before I'd ever been to BGG.

But
I see it makes you feel important to be part of some special group with some sort of perceived power, so you go right ahead. No reason to let reality interfere with such a carefully constructed fantasy.
 
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