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Subject: Healing with a minion present rss

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Eric Engstrom
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Reading through the rules, I came across 4 passages which mention healing. Two of them mention that when a hero rests in a haven, he heals. Two mention that a hero in a haven may heal (no mention of resting). The rules state that if a monster or minion is in the heroes location, the hero does not rest (the rules specifically state to skip the entire rest phase). This seems to me a clear indication that heroes cannot heal if a monster/minion is present, since healing is an extention of the rest phase.

Upon reading the FAQ, the official answer is that a hero may heal in a haven, even if a minion is present. Does this mean that healing is now a separate phase, and not attached to the rest phase?
 
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Joe Fling
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Thats the way I have always played it.

If a hero and a minion are in the same Haven: A hero may not rest, but may heal. If there is anything that contradicts that, i am unaware.
 
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David desJardins
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bungeeboy wrote:
Upon reading the FAQ, the official answer is that a hero may heal in a haven, even if a minion is present. Does this mean that healing is now a separate phase, and not attached to the rest phase?


No. When you are in a Haven, you can ignore enemies there for all purposes (resting, healing, etc.).
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Eric Engstrom
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DaviddesJ wrote:
bungeeboy wrote:
Upon reading the FAQ, the official answer is that a hero may heal in a haven, even if a minion is present. Does this mean that healing is now a separate phase, and not attached to the rest phase?


No. When you are in a Haven, you can ignore enemies there for all purposes (resting, healing, etc.).


This, I would have to disagree with. The rules clearly state on page 20 that if there is a monster or minion on the hero's location, he may not rest and the entire rest step is skipped.
Later on the page, it mentions that when a hero rests in a Haven location, he may also heal.

Thus my confusion. Heroes cannot rest in havens when minions are present (whole rest step skipped), but the FAQ states that they may heal. This is almost a complete rule change.

This leads to another question: If a hero heals, does a sauron marker get advanced? I would assume so.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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bungeeboy wrote:

Thus my confusion. Heroes cannot rest in havens when minions are present (whole rest step skipped), but the FAQ states that they may heal. This is almost a complete rule change.

This leads to another question: If a hero heals, does a sauron marker get advanced? I would assume so.


"If there is a monster or minion on the hero’s location, or if he is
on a Shadow Stronghold location, he may not rest (and this step
is skipped)." (p. 20)

I think with the FAQ clarification that you may Heal in a Haven even if a Minion is present, the above is intended to have "unless in a Haven" added to it. Certainly you can't Heal without Resting. Which takes care of the Sauron marker advancing question.
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Joe Fling
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Dam the Man wrote:
bungeeboy wrote:

Thus my confusion. Heroes cannot rest in havens when minions are present (whole rest step skipped), but the FAQ states that they may heal. This is almost a complete rule change.

This leads to another question: If a hero heals, does a sauron marker get advanced? I would assume so.


"If there is a monster or minion on the hero’s location, or if he is
on a Shadow Stronghold location, he may not rest (and this step
is skipped)." (p. 20)

I think with the FAQ clarification that you may Heal in a Haven even if a Minion is present, the above is intended to have "unless in a Haven" added to it. Certainly you can't Heal without Resting. Which takes care of the Sauron marker advancing question.



I disagree, I think Healing and Resting are two different things. Why would the FAQ only talk about Healing w/ a minion in the same location but not talk about resting? I think its because the rules clearly state that you cannot rest in the same region with a minion or monster. If it did say "unless in a Haven" then you would be correct. But it does not, you cant assume thats what they meant, but just forgot to put it in.

So the rules say you cannot rest with a minion or monster in your location, and they say you can heal with a minion in your location. Sounds to me like you can Heal without resting in this specific situation.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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"When a hero rests in a Haven location, he may also heal." (p. 20)

To me, no other option for Healing is given. You have to Rest in order to Heal.

There is also Beravor's ability, which reads "When you Rest in non-Haven location, you may Heal or receive training."
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Ed Browne
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The difference between resting and healing is only that you add back in your cards from combat damage in addition to your other pool. They happen in the same phase.

However, the intention of the FAQ ruling is addressing the issue of a minion in a haven, and not saying it is a different phase. The reason for the ruling is because you don't have to fight a minion, unless you want to, while in a haven. It makes sense if the minion can't force a fight that you are protected enough to be able to heal.

This isn't meant to set up a different phase between resting and healing; it is to establish an exception to the "presence of a minion means a hero can't rest" rule when a hero is in a haven.
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David desJardins
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joefling34 wrote:
I disagree, I think Healing and Resting are two different things. Why would the FAQ only talk about Healing w/ a minion in the same location but not talk about resting?


You're supposed to have common sense.

I would prefer the rules to be written in the explicit style that you prefer, too. But instead, over and over, the rules assume that you are willing to infer the obvious. This is just one more case of that.
 
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Drake Coker
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I have to agree that healing is an optional part of resting that you may take when you are in a haven. The FAQ is clarifying that you may still rest/heal in a haven even if a minion is present. It just isn't stated very well.

There hasn't been anything from FFG to suggest that healing is somehow a separate step from resting. While I agree that you can invent such a step to resolve the rules conflicts stated above, it's much easier and straightforward to believe that the rules have not been precisely worded and go with the (to me) obvious intent that minions do not prevent resting in a haven.

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Eric Engstrom
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I am not comfortable making the assumption that heroes are allowed to rest based on the FAQ saying they can heal. Most of the rulebook is incredibly specific in what can and cannot be done, so I am reluctant to re-interpret what is not explicitly stated when it comes to game mechanics (with one exception, which is the topic of a different post). If I had never read the FAQ, we would have played where heroes neither heal nor rest in havens when minions are present, because this is what is written.

I recently sent an email to fantasyflight inquiring about the rest step rules and havens. I asked them to please clarify resting/healing and havens w/wo minions.


For the time being, we are playing as such:

Rest step:
If a minion/monster is present, or shadow stronghold, may not rest. (pg 20)
If in a haven, may heal. (FAQ errata)

 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Might as well throw the whole quote in here:

"When a hero rests in a Haven location, he may also heal.
When healing, a player shuffles all cards from his damage pool
into his life pool. (In other words, when a player rests on a
Haven location, he shuffles all cards from both his rest pool and
damage pool into his life pool.)" (p. 20)

Note the sentence in parenthesis.
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David desJardins
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bungeeboy wrote:
Most of the rulebook is incredibly specific in what can and cannot be done


No, it isn't. Look at the FAQ that already exists. There are lots of things that are intuitively clear but aren't explicitly stated anywhere in the rules. Just in the FAQ alone you can see a half-dozen examples of rulings, every single one of which favors the common-sense interpretation over the literal text of the rules.
 
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Eric Engstrom
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After thinking about this for a long time after playing this game again, I'm willing to concede that most likely the intention of the ruling was to allow both rest and healing in a haven, even if a minion is present. For the time being (since sauron is constantly kicking out butts in a 3 player game), we've decided to allow rest and heal in havens regardless of minion presence.


I am still eager to hear back from FantasyFlight, although it seems to me that they will probably reply with the same answer.
 
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