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Subject: control without domination?? rss

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Vlad Reznik
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i just got TS and in my 3rd game faced the following situation: my opponent controlled cuba, mexico, and panama. he had no non-bg countries in central america, therefore no domination. however, based on the text in the rules, it seems you don't need domination to have control of the region? this was mind-boggling to me and i didn't see it coming at all.

can someone please confirm whether or not this is the case?

do you really not need domination in order to have control?

thanks in advance.
 
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Tim Schwarz
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That is correct, you can control without domination. But you must have more total countries (in addition to all the BG), so if the other player has a bunch of non-BG, then no control.
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Vlad Reznik
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yeah, he had the 3 bgs and nothing else, i had 2 non-bgs. i just assumed that you couldnt have control without domination and didnt even worry about immediately trying to get another country there - was satisfied with him having a 5 point advantage (he was soviets). the control gave him an extra 4 vp, which i was definitely not in a position to lose.

another question that just occurred to me: i always assumed that a higher level control of a region (presence -> dom -> control) replaced the vps of the level(s) under it.

therefore, when someone had domination/control, he would not score the points for presence. is this also not the case?

(in my earlier example, my friend took 9 net points: 5 for control, 3 for his 3 bgs, 2 for 2 of those bgs being next to my superpower, -1 for my presence. should he have taken 10, since he also had presence? if he had had domination as well, would he have taken 13??)
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Snooze Fest
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callmeVlad wrote:

another question that just occurred to me: i always assumed that a higher level control of a region (presence -> dom -> control) replaced the vps of the level(s) under it.

therefore, when someone had domination/control, he would not score the points for presence. is this also not the case?

(in my earlier example, my friend took 9 net points: 5 for control, 3 for his 3 bgs, 2 for 2 of those bgs being next to my superpower, -1 for my presence. should he have taken 10, since he also had presence? if he had had domination as well, would he have taken 13??)


Part of the confusion is that it is actually presence -> control -> DOMINATE. It makes sense: stick your toe in the continent/water and you have presence. Put the whole foot in, and now you control it. But do a cannonball into the pool and you DOMINATE (once you start peeing in the pool, ain't no one else interested in taking a swim).

So you take the points for whichever of these 3 you have, with preference to the stronger type (so in this case, DOM + BG + superpower)


Oops! Move along now, nothing to see here!
 
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Tim Schwarz
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callmeVlad wrote:
therefore, when someone had domination/control, he would not score the points for presence. is this also not the case?


This statement is correct. When scoring a region, you give each player points for their highest category (presence, etc.) + other points (BG, etc). Then you take the net difference and move the sliding scale VP marker.
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Tim Schwarz
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snoozefest wrote:

Part of the confusion is that it is actually presence -> control -> DOMINATE. It makes sense: stick your toe in the continent/water and you have presence. Put the whole foot in, and now you control it. But do a cannonball into the pool and you DOMINATE (once you start peeing in the pool, ain't no one else interested in taking a swim).


Huh? Control is higher. More points, harder to do, etc. Look at the scoring chart for Europe. If you dominate, you get points. If you control, you WIN.
 
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eryn roston
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Talltim wrote:
snoozefest wrote:

Part of the confusion is that it is actually presence -> control -> DOMINATE. It makes sense: stick your toe in the continent/water and you have presence. Put the whole foot in, and now you control it. But do a cannonball into the pool and you DOMINATE (once you start peeing in the pool, ain't no one else interested in taking a swim).


Huh? Control is higher. More points, harder to do, etc. Look at the scoring chart for Europe. If you dominate, you get points. If you control, you WIN.


heh. I taught this game to a friend once who was on the verge of throwing the whole experience out the window because "control" was better than "dominate". As far as he was concerned it should be labeled the other way around. I'm sorta inclined to agree
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Tim Schwarz
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Fair enough. I'd have to think about it to decide which I thought sounded stronger.
 
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Vlad Reznik
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thanks for your help tim
 
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Snooze Fest
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Talltim wrote:
snoozefest wrote:

Part of the confusion is that it is actually presence -> control -> DOMINATE. It makes sense: stick your toe in the continent/water and you have presence. Put the whole foot in, and now you control it. But do a cannonball into the pool and you DOMINATE (once you start peeing in the pool, ain't no one else interested in taking a swim).


Huh? Control is higher. More points, harder to do, etc. Look at the scoring chart for Europe. If you dominate, you get points. If you control, you WIN.


Sorry, you are absolutely correct -- I was momentarily confused there! Nevertheless, the rest is true: score points for the single best status (control>dominate>presence) plus whatever other bonuses you get.
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Ben Smith
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http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Dominate

I think domination should be weaker than control, the way it is. In mathematics, "dominates" usually means "is bigger than". One of the common uses of the word is in a geographic context. "The hill dominates the town." "Half dome dominates yosemite."

The word "control" is much more clear. It indicates that decisions being made by the one being controlled.
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Talltim wrote:
callmeVlad wrote:
therefore, when someone had domination/control, he would not score the points for presence. is this also not the case?


This statement is correct. When scoring a region, you give each player points for their highest category (presence, etc.) + other points (BG, etc). Then you take the net difference and move the sliding scale VP marker.


Just got this game and a little confused on the topic of Region scoring .... The requirement for achieving Control of a region is that you control all Battleground countries in that region. Therefore would I be correct that the score already takes into account that you have all the battleground countries .... OR do I still add the +1 VP for each Battleground country ?
 
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Benoît Delcorps
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dwrigley wrote:
Therefore would I be correct that the score already takes into account that you have all the battleground countries .... OR do I still add the +1 VP for each Battleground country ?


The second option is the correct one : the player takes the points for controlling the region + 1 point per battleground country he controls in this region. His opponent takes the points for presence if he has one.
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Wot!
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Benwa wrote:
dwrigley wrote:
Therefore would I be correct that the score already takes into account that you have all the battleground countries .... OR do I still add the +1 VP for each Battleground country ?


The second option is the correct one : the player takes the points for controlling the region + 1 point per battleground country he controls in this region. His opponent takes the points for presence if he has one.

Thanks for getting back so quickly .... I am right in the middle of a game with my wife and I just played the first region scoring card!
 
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Benoît Delcorps
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Oh and I also forgot something : a player gets also +1 VP for each controlled country adjacent (linked) to his opponent's superpower (eg. if USA controls Finland, it's a + 1VP for USA when Europe scores... and Mexico and Cuba are both worth 2VP if controlled by the USSR player - 1 because they are BG country + 1 for their adjacence)
 
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