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Subject: Who gets my money if I buy these games? rss

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King of the Dead
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I'm wondering about Fantasy Flight publishing games based on Games Workshop properties.

Who actually gets the money there if I buy, say, Chaos in the Old World? Is it Just FF or does GW get a portion of that? What about the upcoming remake of Horus Heresy? Does FF own that outright of what?
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Jeff Yeackle
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GW gets the licensing money for the properties. The exact details are naturally a secret, but there's no way a listed corp like GW would allow FFG to produce products using GW IP without making some sort of money -- the shareholders would be a wee bit upset.

Just a quick example. LEGO licenses the Star Wars brand which is why Star Wars sets cost more on a per piece basis versus LEGO's in-house brands (Castle, Space, etc) due to the added fees.
 
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Orlando Ramirez
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Typically the publisher gets a much larger cut than the license holder. Depends on the deal of course. But the publisher does nearly all the work to get the product to market, and therefore takes a majority cut. This is based on my knowledge of the video games industry, and I gotta imagine its much the same in this instance.
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Diz Hooper
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I don't know a lot about this area, but doesn't the license holder get their money up front before the game is published or do they get a percentage of sales? If it's the first one, then it doesn't really matter since GW already has the money.
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Martin Manning
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FFG has certainly paid a licensing fee, though as the details aren't published, it's not known whether they paid a flat fee, an advance on royalties, or whether they simply take a cut of the profits as they come in.

But really, lets not beat around the bush. I imagine you're asking the question because, after the recent fiasco, you'd rather not let Games Workshop have any of your money. In which case, the real factor you need to consider is this: regardless of whether GW will make any money from you purchasing Chaos in the Old World or Horus Heresy, if you buy one of the GW licensed games from FFG, you send FFG a clear message that you want more of that sort of thing, and so they'll undoubtedly take a portion of their profits from those games to license more properties from Games Workshop. So whether Games Workshop makes any money from you buying an FFG game now or not, if you do, sooner or later some of your money will undoubtedly end up in their pockets.
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King of the Dead
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Umm... No... That's not what I meant at all... ninja

I don't care so much about Horus Heresy. I have the original (I know it's a major remake, whatever). But CitOW looks pretty cool. And, yeah, they sort of piled on the last straw.

Sigh... I just wish FF wasn't involved but they kind of are I guess. I really like their games and they haven't pissed me off.
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Nazhuret wrote:
Sigh... I just wish FF wasn't involved but they kind of are I guess. I really like their games and they haven't pissed me off.


Just be glad you weren't into Warhammer FRP 2nd Ed.

On November 23rd they posted a nice news blip that in less than 2 weeks on Dec 4th they were going to wipe out all WHFRP 2nd Ed. material from their site. This included everything from important errata (even for books they personally published in 2009, not just the original Black Industries publications), to user submitted adventures to all the forum discussions. The same BS occurred when BI wiped all the content from their site as well a year prior and FFG became the new 'permanent' home.

Naturally, I found this news blip after the 4th... and I had to dig for it because there wasn't even a WHFRP 2nd Ed. page to read it on anymore. They're even still selling physical WHRP2E books in their on-line store. I guess if you want the errata, you need to buy the PDF version now from one of the PDF shops -- thanks!

It's fine that they wanted to release a new edition that's a radical departure from the previous two editions. But to wipe out all the supporting material for 2nd ed., and giving less than 2 weeks notice? This isn't the first time I noticed that when FFG kills a product line, they erase all evidence on their site.

I want to love FFG, but customer support goes beyond just replacing damaged/missing game bits. A little more communication would be appreciated. They also need to hire a few professional editors (or replace the ones they have) to compliment their fabulous graphic designers and artists. Then they might not even need any errata.
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Wouter Dhondt
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Nazhuret wrote:
Umm... No... That's not what I meant at all... ninja

I don't care so much about Horus Heresy. I have the original (I know it's a major remake, whatever). But CitOW looks pretty cool. And, yeah, they sort of piled on the last straw.

Sigh... I just wish FF wasn't involved but they kind of are I guess. I really like their games and they haven't pissed me off.


I love it when people care so much they would derive their own fun just to make a statement when the other party clearly doesn't care and / or is not involved. You're trying to punish GW (cause they stopped an illegal activity) by not buying a product from another manufacturer cause they might receive a dollar or two on the sale?

I'll be playing Chaos in the Old World in the meantime.
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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It's his prerogative and I wish more people would put their money where their mouth is. Sure, if he's the only one to send the message it won't be heard, but every movement has to start somewhere, so kudos to him.

I have to wonder though why you care what he does and doesn't do with his own money. Except for the obvious step to take the chance for some unnecessary white-knighting.
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Wouter Dhondt
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I don't care. I just thought it was funny. But at least I didn't call him names.
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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Would you deny that white-knighting is what you're doing? So far I haven't commented on many (any?) threads regarding this entire GW fiasco, but I've read your posts, and it seems quite obvious to me that that's what you're doing.

That's not to say all reactions of the community to this were entirely justified. I can see where you're coming from, but unquestioning defense of their actions isn't any better than the unrelenting hatred they caught from the other side of the fence.

And do we have to debate if a derogatory attitude is better than mild name-calling?
 
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Wouter Dhondt
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Quote:
Would you deny that white-knighting is what you're doing?


In this thread? Yes. I was simply pointing to a funny situation. I'm sorry you can't see it.

Quote:
And do we have to debate if a derogatory attitude is better than mild name-calling?


Seems you're doing both so you win either way. And I wouldn't call it mild.
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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Kwakkie wrote:
you win either way.


It's what I do.
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King of the Dead
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Quote:
I love it when people care so much they would derive their own fun just to make a statement when the other party clearly doesn't care and / or is not involved. You're trying to punish GW (cause they stopped an illegal activity) by not buying a product from another manufacturer cause they might receive a dollar or two on the sale?

I'll be playing Chaos in the Old World in the meantime.


I assume you meant to say "deny" as apposed to "derive".

If so, then you are incorrect. I'm not denying myself anything at all. I'm simply choosing to redirect from whence my fun is derived.

While you're playing CitOW I'll be playing Neuroshima Hex! or some other game that I love. Perhaps it'll even be a GW game that I already own, one purchased decades ago before they turned into a company that doesn't care if I choose to protest with my money or not.

Yes, I see this as a moral decision I must make. You need not understand nor even respect it. But it is a truth regardless.

EDIT: I suppose you probably meant "deprive", actually.
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Joshua Kenney
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100% off topic, so, apologies, but isn't it a little funny that one of the most fan-friendly companies is in bed with one of the most fan-unfriendly in the industry?

FFG recently changed its LCG policy which will, in essence, make them less money but makes their fans really happy. Can you imagine GW doing that?
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Robert Freeman
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I don't particularly care about a company's reputation, as long as the product is good. There are limits of course, but I can't think of any boardgame company that's done enough harm to anyone to warrant 'boycotting'.

I know a lot of people are annoyed with GW, but the bottom line is you don't have to buy any of their rulebooks or models. What you've bought in the past is fine enough for normal play. It might not be usable in tournaments, but you don't have to play at tournaments in order to play.

There are many other hobbies that have far more right to complain about the company that provides their products. Take people who play online games. They have a lot more right to complain then we do, because if something important is changed, there isn't a way for them to go back to playing the old way. All play is controlled by the company.

Don't like GW? Then don't play their games. There's no point in making a big fuss over it.
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I would consider a hundred different companies threatening human lives instead of fanboyish felicity before I'd boycott Games Workshop.

Boycotting a product although loving the product is self-deception. Ever seen an unhappy hippie? Apart from the pretentious lot, vegetarians don't eat meat because they 'should', but because they 'can'.

I'm a white knight in a fat meat suit.
 
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jkenney23 wrote:
100% off topic, so, apologies, but isn't it a little funny that one of the most fan-friendly companies is in bed with one of the most fan-unfriendly in the industry?

FFG recently changed its LCG policy which will, in essence, make them less money but makes their fans really happy. Can you imagine GW doing that?


FFG isn't fan unfriendly.



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And GW is also very supportive of customers - up to the point where it becomes a poor business decision to do so (i.e. impacts their ability to make money off of licensing, adds confusion to tournament play, or devalues their brand). They even give their "fans" guidance on how they would like user generated content to be created and shared - which any actual "fan" should be happy to follow.
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Andy M
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i heard the money funds terrorist attacks on the United States.
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robertmfreeman wrote:
...the bottom line is you don't have to buy any of their rulebooks or models. What you've bought in the past is fine enough for normal play. It might not be usable in tournaments, but you don't have to play at tournaments in order to play....


This is assuming I am interested in playing table top miniature battle games.

This is an incorrect assumption. I am speaking solely of self contained board games based upon Games Workshop licenses but published by Fantasy Flight Games.
 
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Geert Alexander Heijnen
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I heard that 65% of the money goes directly to fund the GW legal department.
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Tim Collins
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The game in and of itself is quite worth it. It's my game of the year for sure. I'd stongly suggest picking it up and giving fantasy flight alittle coin.
 
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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LilRed wrote:
I heard that 65% of the money goes directly to fund the GW legal department.


Yeah, Andy said that already:

moss_icon wrote:
i heard the money funds terrorist attacks.


 
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