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Combat Commander: Europe» Forums » Strategy

Subject: What is the best way to Vienna Waltz into the Pond House? rss

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Mr G
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OK, I love how CC:E has so many tiny little decisions to make. All of them tough. It is almost as though the maps were 'designed by a smart bloke' rather than exact true to life depictions of real world sites (!).

So here is my request for assistance...

Fat Lipki

Russians move the MMG plus Squad (plus perhaps the sarge) into D3, the NW woods hex with road.

What is the best way for Lt von Karsties (did you know he was Austrian, not German?) to get into the Pond House (F7) without being nailed by Op Fire in the open road in F6, or is that a necessary evil? (assuming necessary cards in Russian hand).

In the matches I've played where the MMG sets up before the Gerries move, it is a tough deal for von Karsties to get to the Pond House.

Any options greatly appreciated!

Regards,

Fentum
 
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David desJardins
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The house is F6 and the road is F7.

Obviously, there's a huge difference if Sgt Kovalev is with the MMG. With only the squad, the firepower into F6 is just 5, and von Karsties has a morale of 8, so he can just make the morale check most of the time, and then continue into the pool house, bringing a broken squad along with him (which can then easily rally in the building).

With leader plus squad plus MMG, the fire attack is 8, which is obviously more of a problem. You might decide to just set up your fire base with your leader in E8, and wait for a better opportunity to occupy objective 5. A lot is going to depend on what cards you hold.

With von Karsties plus rifle squad plus LMG in E8, you're going to have 7 firepower into D3, where Sgt Kovalev only has morale 9. And maybe you draw some additional action cards. Eventually, he's going to have a problem, dueling it out with you from that location. I'm surprised he set up in D3 in the first place, compared to C4 for example.
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Mr G
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Thanks for the advice David. I was going from memory so was all at sixes and sevens when it came to the Pond House hex references...


In the couple of matches where this has occurred, I have moved Karsties, Squad plus LMG together into F7. OP Fire from MMG plus Sustained Fire card(s) with / without the sarge have broken one or other of the squad/Karsties, causing them both to stop, in the open, on a road. Yikes.

Now I have a few options in my mind, and I would appreciate feedback and other ideas ...

Wait. As you suggest. Maybe in E8. I am concerned that the pesky Russians will quickly get to a good position in the woods and / or take the Pond House for themselves.

Smoke. Lay smoke into F7 if I have it, then move through smoke into house.

Individualism. Move the squad and Karsties one after the other rather than together. I don't like this as the squad morale goes way too low, but it is an option.


Beware the Roads. Avoid the road hex and go from the woods to the open hex then Pond House. More Op Fire chances (an extra shot versus the units as they move through the woods in E8) but better cover. Slightly.

SCUBA. Use the event 'SCUBA gear' and approach the house through the pond.


I agree that a lot will depend on cards, just looking for options.

I believe that the Russians set up in D3 rather than C4 in order to get to their intended edge of woods positions more quickly in future turns.


Regards,

Fentum
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David desJardins
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fentum wrote:
In the couple of matches where this has occurred, I have moved Karsties, Squad plus LMG together into F7. OP Fire from MMG plus Sustained Fire card(s) with / without the sarge have broken one or other of the squad/Karsties, causing them both to stop, in the open, on a road. Yikes.


You don't have to stop if the squad breaks. Even broken, when stacked with von Karsties, the squad has enough movement to enter the house.
 
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Mr G
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Hi David,

Thanks once again, but now you have me worried that I am misunderstanding some key concepts...

Say von Karsties and a squad are in G9. They each have a movement of 6 (von Karsties 6 and Squad 4+2=6). They move together to G8 on the road, so they have spent 1 movement point but their movement rating goes to 7 due to road movement (+1). They then move along the road to F7, so now having used 2 movement points. They undergo OP fire.

If the squad breaks, its movement rating would be 1 + 2 for von K + 1 for road movement this turn = 4. so they can then move into the Pond House for another 2 points. Von K stays at 7, so moves into house with them for 2 points. Oh My God - as I am slowly writing this I just realised that you are absolutely correct (as usual).

I had convinced myself that the 1 movement rating on the broken squad would stop it from moving as it had used 2 this turn.

If von K breaks, his movement rating goes to 1 + 1 for road movement this turn. So he DOES have to stop? Yes? In this case, the squad must also stop as they have moved together and must end the turn together. Right?

I have always been thinking that a broken unit has to stop simply because the base movemnet rating of broken units is 1 and usually they have already expended some points in the turn in which they have been stopped by op fire. I guess that is not necessarily so given roads plus leaders.

Leaders, though, are still stuffed - right?

I was also swayed a bit ny the grey boxed text in the rulebook warning of the dangers of moving stacks together as one.

David - can you confirm / redirect my thinking on this?

Regards,

Fentum

 
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Steve Bishop
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Hi Scott,

you must be referring to our recent game, that I don't unfortunately have a log for.

You are indeed right that the leader would indeed still add his command value to the Movement rating of the squad and it would still have had 1 for the road. This give the broken squad a current Move rating of 4.

I'm just trying to remember whether you moved through the woods first (capturing objective 3). In this case 4 MP's have been used and as the squad now has a Move Rating of only 4 (that includes leader & road bonus) it must stop. As the leader is part of the stack he must also stop.

If this is not the case then I must apologise as you would definitely have been able to move into the building with the remaining 2 MP.

Oops blush
 
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Mr G
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Hi Steve,

No problem at all. This has happened on a couple of my solo plays too. I remember things better when they happen for real. I don't reckon that it would have helped me in the long run. Too many Private Schultz's and not enough Desert Foxes.

Look forward to a rematch!
 
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David desJardins
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fentum wrote:
I have always been thinking that a broken unit has to stop simply because the base movemnet rating of broken units is 1 and usually they have already expended some points in the turn in which they have been stopped by op fire. I guess that is not necessarily so given roads plus leaders.


It is very common that a unit by itself moves onto a road, draws opportunity fire, and then uses the road bonus to move back out of LOS, having accomplished its purpose of drawing a Fire card out of the enemy hand.
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Mr G
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Hi David,

Thanks - got it.

Regards,

Fentum
 
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