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Subject: 5 players no good? rss

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Mark Farr
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I see from the recommendations that 5 players is not popular. For those that have tried it, what is the issue? Is it simply the downtime, or does it use up more cards, diluting the experience, end the game too quickly, not quickly enough?

I haven't played the game, which is probably obvious from my comments above, but I will be getting it soon and hope to play it on my next game night, which will likely be a 5 player group. If it's not going to provide a good introduction to the game for them, I would rather save it for some other time.

Thanks in advance for any information in this regard.
 
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Charles Hasegawa
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Scoring points for the most part is dependent on getting the monsters in the hall. Each round you have a draw that doesn't let you get a mob gives four other people a shot. The game is a bit different - a lean deck for killing is better, but you can still get hosed.

Five is ok. But you should expect to see one person with a good score and someone with a really BAD score.
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David Vanden Heuvel
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we played it with 6 and everyone had fun.

adjustments:

starting hand = 5 militia, 2 rations, 2 torches, 2 daggers (you could deal one random card from 2 rations/torches/daggers to each player to make the full complement of 12.)

we added 1 more set of monsters. (total = 4)

I would add ranks to the dungeon. At least 4 probably 5 total.
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Josh Troeckler
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I played my first 5 player game last night and it was not bad there was still plenty of cards to buy out there. I think in a 5 player game you need to add another set of monsters the game we played went pretty quick. Of course it did not help that two of the monsters we drew where humanoids and enchanted which in my opinion are very week monster decks. Also the thunderstone ended up being the top card of the bottom 11. The people I was teaching the game to like it but they thought it ended to fast. So I recommend 4 monster decks for 5 player games for sure.
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Mark Farr
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Thanks, guys. I appreciate your input. I'd tip you all if I had any bag left. I will try to remember to return here when I get some again.
 
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Tim Fiscus
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Tobold wrote:
Thanks, guys. I appreciate your input. I'd tip you all if I had any bag left. I will try to remember to return here when I get some again.


bag Pass it on!
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Kirk Monsen
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played two 4 player and a 5 player game this weekend.

the big issue with the 5 player was the hero decks would run out very quickly, but sequentially. As soon as a hero deck had the tier 2 available, everyone would dive on and grab the rest of the tier 2/3 through buying or upgrades so that they would get them before they ran out, and then everyone would dive on another hero until it was gone, and another (trainer was in this set, so XP was not an issue).

It almost feels like there should be another hero pile, but I don't know if this will make it less of an issue.

as for the monsters, there will be 20-30 monsters killed each game. in a 2 player game that's 10-20 monsters fought per player. In a 5 player game, that is 4-6 monsters fought per player, making the choices to kill more important. At one point two orcs and a kobold were up, and so everyone spent time in the village, as no one wanted dead cards.

-Munch "Oddly, the more players, the leaner your deck is" Wolf
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Chris Farrell
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I've played a couple times with 5, and it's definitely not optimum in my opinion. Depends on who you play with, but it becomes more sensitive to a player or two who are slow. If everyone plays fast, you're fine, but it seems like it is susceptible to bogging down.

One thing we tried, by accident actually, was to play with 4 sets of monsters instead of 3 (the rulebook actually mentions this as an optional way to play). It'll make the game take a bit longer, but it'll also give everyone more opportunity to kill the big-point stuff. If you can stand a little extra play time, I think adding another set of monsters with 5 isn't a bad idea.
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Adam Brant
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MunchWolf wrote:
It almost feels like there should be another hero pile, but I don't know if this will make it less of an issue.


that's an idea I'd be willing to try.
 
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Joachim Pehl
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I don't like it with 5.

Much more luck-dependant. Too few militias to buy. It is much more likely that all level 1 heroes get bought, etc.

But downtime is defintely NOT an issue
 
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David Vanden Heuvel
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HuckmanT wrote:
Tobold wrote:
Thanks, guys. I appreciate your input. I'd tip you all if I had any bag left. I will try to remember to return here when I get some again.


bag Pass it on!

Daddy needs a Thunderstone microbadge!
 
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Jeremy Lennert
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tech7 wrote:
Too few militias to buy.

Is this a joke? Under what circumstances do you buy militias?

(Serious question; I have trouble imagining circumstances in which I would buy one, but I haven't played that much yet.)
 
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Joachim Pehl
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Antistone wrote:
tech7 wrote:
Too few militias to buy.

Is this a joke? Under what circumstances do you buy militias?

(Serious question; I have trouble imagining circumstances in which I would buy one, but I haven't played that much yet.)


There is one hero which have a nice synergy with militias, if you have this hero or other items that boost all heroes in your hand it might be nice to buy some addtitional ones, especially after some are already destroyed, if you deck already has some trophies or if you have multiple buys. Or if you want new fodder for your trainer.

I agree that this isn't the case usually, but it may happen and this isn't possible in the 5 player game.
 
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Jon Bowker
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I've played games ranging from 2 to 5 players. I think I enjoyed the 3 player games the most. With 5, there's a higher potential for down time and there simply seemed to be a shortage of cards.
1. Not enough Hero stacks - We had a lot of extra xp as it was more reliable to buy the next level hero then waiting for a lower one in hand. We discussed having 1 pile per player with a mimimum of 3.
2. Too few cards in village piles - The more desireable village cards disappeared too quickly, leaving those who couldn't get them at a disadvantage and in perma-catchup mode. I believe stacks of 10 would have been better for a 5P game.
3. I didn't have an issue with the number of monsters, it just meant scores would presumeably be lower. What could be frustrating is the dungeon can go through a complete restock and you may never see some monsters.
 
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David Vanden Heuvel
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Antistone wrote:
tech7 wrote:
Too few militias to buy.

Is this a joke? Under what circumstances do you buy militias?

(Serious question; I have trouble imagining circumstances in which I would buy one, but I haven't played that much yet.)

Sometimes extra militia work well with a trainer... they are free XP after all.
 
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Jeremy Lennert
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Deefer wrote:
Sometimes extra militia work well with a trainer... they are free XP after all.

They're XP that costs you the opportunity to buy another card and is contingent upon drawing the militia in a hand that has a Trainer and didn't already have another militia at a time when you want to visit the village. That's a lot of caveats.

tech7 wrote:
There is one hero which have a nice synergy with militias, if you have this hero or other items that boost all heroes in your hand it might be nice to buy some addtitional ones, especially after some are already destroyed, if you deck already has some trophies or if you have multiple buys.

That's true, I suppose. Though I believe that most level 1 heroes are still generally better than a militia with a bonus from a level 2 Thyrian (Knight?), so it would probably need to be a situation where buying a level 1 hero wasn't an option.

(You could theoretically have multiple level 2 Thyrians in your hand along with the militia and stack the bonuses, but I doubt that happens often enough to be statistically meaningful.)

And I believe the bonus changes to affect all non-fighters if you get the Thyrian to level 3...narrow window of opportunity here.
 
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Mark Farr
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HuckmanT wrote:
Tobold wrote:
Thanks, guys. I appreciate your input. I'd tip you all if I had any bag left. I will try to remember to return here when I get some again.


bag Pass it on!


That's really nice of you, Tim. I have portioned it out as best I could. I won't forget this.
 
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John Anderson
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Crap, I waited too long to post in this thread!

Anyway, my only games so far have actually been with 5 players. We enjoyed it, but did notice some of the "symptoms" others have described, so it's possible we'll enjoy it more with 3 or 4. It did seem like the village and hero decks were susceptible to being depleted quickly, and it did seem like the monster deck disappeared pretty quickly.

But I don't have anything to compare it to yet, so we'll see.
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Joachim Pehl
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Antistone wrote:
Deefer wrote:
Sometimes extra militia work well with a trainer... they are free XP after all.

They're XP that costs you the opportunity to buy another card and is contingent upon drawing the militia in a hand that has a Trainer and didn't already have another militia at a time when you want to visit the village. That's a lot of caveats.

Barkeep and Town Guard are your friends here. I usually have 1 or two trainer, but no militia after some time.
Antistone wrote:

tech7 wrote:
There is one hero which have a nice synergy with militias, if you have this hero or other items that boost all heroes in your hand it might be nice to buy some addtitional ones, especially after some are already destroyed, if you deck already has some trophies or if you have multiple buys.

That's true, I suppose. Though I believe that most level 1 heroes are still generally better than a militia with a bonus from a level 2 Thyrian (Knight?), so it would probably need to be a situation where buying a level 1 hero wasn't an option.
Most level 1 heroes are better, BUT sometimes you don't have the money to buy them because this is your second buy (Barkeep again ) or if the level 1 hero decks are exhausted, which happens easily in a 5 player game

What do we learn, just don't play with 5
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Chris Farrell
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It's hard to imagine that buying a Militia is ever a good idea. You could try a Trainer/Barkeeper combo, use the extra buy to feed Militias to the Trainer, but my experience is it just takes too long to pay off; you're better off getting the XP by killing stuff.

Almost all the cards that have synergies with Militias work just as well with other Heroes (Feast, Battle Cry). The one hero (the 2nd-level Fighter, forget the title) who boosts all Militias boosts all Heroes at 3rd level, so it's a pretty tough way to go too.

I've played about 15 games, and only seen a couple Militia buys, and I think all the purchases were regretted. Most people spend most of their time figuring out how to get rid of them. There is the odd deck that if you can't scrounge 2 gold, buying a Militia might not be the worst thing you could do, but it seems like even better would be to pass the turn to destroy a militia or other core card that isn't working out.
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Mark Farr
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What I am getting from this, and I appreciate it, is that, with you guys having given it the thought you have, the game is definitely worth playing. I should have it by tomorrow, or Monday at the latest. I look forward to studying the cards and rules, in anticipation of my first play, which will not be with 5 players.
 
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