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Subject: Rules now available as a wiki page rss

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I've moved the rules to a BGG wiki page ( 1886_English_Rules) so that every one can edit them. If you can't read Japanese, you can still chip in by adding graphics and examples of play, and by expanding the bits that just say 'as per 1830'. Have at it.
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sbszine wrote:
I've moved the rules to a BGG wiki page ( 1886_English_Rules) so that every one can edit them. If you can't read Japanese, you can still chip in by adding graphics and examples of play, and by expanding the bits that just say 'as per 1830'. Have at it.


Thanks for that, I already added some corrections to it.

(edit: reposted)
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I corrected the Kamigahara and Nishisan RR, following an answer by the designer regarding the expression "売却前" that intrigued me.

Quote:
売却前
個人会社を株式会社に、「売却する前」ということです。
つまり、各務ケ原鉄道と、西三軌道を株式会社に売却した後では、株式会社の株券と交換できません。

株式会社が所有した後で使用できる能力の説明に書いてあるので、まぎらわしいですね。


both privates have 2 options to choose from, one that is available both to the player and the corporation owning them (laying a tile and / or a token) the other only to the player owning them (exchange with a share).
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Yeah, I was a bit too concise there initially. We should probably spell out assumptions more, since as a free game this could be some people's first or second 18xx.
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sbszine wrote:
Yeah, I was a bit too concise there initially. We should probably spell out assumptions more, since as a free game this could be some people's first or second 18xx.


also, add quick rules replacing the "same as 1830" parts
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carthaginian wrote:
Both privates have 2 options to choose from, one that is available both to the player and the corporation owning them (laying a tile and / or a token) the other only to the player owning them (exchange with a share).

That sounds a bit odd to me -- how can a player lay a token?
 
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sbszine wrote:
carthaginian wrote:
Both privates have 2 options to choose from, one that is available both to the player and the corporation owning them (laying a tile and / or a token) the other only to the player owning them (exchange with a share).

That sounds a bit odd to me -- how can a player lay a token?


hm, good point. So I guess it's :
Player is Owner : get shares,
Corporation is Owner, get Railhead.

 
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Yeah, I think that's right.
 
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not sure if it's any different from what there is already, and missing information, but here's a rough translation of the acquisition section :

Quote:
・吸収は、吸収される会社の株式を現在の株価の 1/2~2倍の価格(売却の賛否時に決定する。)で現金に交換する。資金は吸収をする会社のものを使用する。市場及びストックの株の対価は銀行に支払う。資金が不足する場合は吸収できない。(プレイヤーが補填することはできない。)


Acquisition : The shares of the absorbed company must be bought at half to twice the market price of the absorbed company, using only the cash of the absorbing company. The shares that are in the initial offering or the open market are paid to the bank. If the Absorbing company has not enough cash, the acquisition cannot go further (The player cannot use his cash)
 
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carthaginian wrote:
If the Absorbing company has not enough cash, the acquisition cannot go further (The player cannot use his cash)

How is this situation resolved? I think the easiest way is just to count the money before the acquisition begins, and to forbid acquisition if there isn't enough money.
 
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regarding Mergers, where did you get the detailed rules from?
 
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sbszine wrote:
carthaginian wrote:
If the Absorbing company has not enough cash, the acquisition cannot go further (The player cannot use his cash)

How is this situation resolved? I think the easiest way is just to count the money before the acquisition begins, and to forbid acquisition if there isn't enough money.


Yes, though I guess being able to set the price point helps
 
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couldn't find that in the wiki :

Quote:
※合併は株価の高い会社が、低い会社に対して行う。(後継会社は株価の高い会社になる。)


In mergers, it's always the Company that had the highest share price that is left in play.

also, fixed in the wiki :
Quote:
・合併(吸収ではない)の対象となる会社は、その経営ラウンドで経営を実施していない会社である。


Merger prerequisite (Not Acquisition) : Company to be absorbed must not have operated in the OR.
 
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I've updated the rules with the changes mentioned thus far.
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Quote:
・合併は、まず後継会社の株価を決定する。株価は二社の株価の合計(ただし、株価チャートにあるもっとも左の直近の株価)となる。株主は合併会社の株を使用して自分の所有する株式の株式変換(合併する会社の株式2株につき合併会社の株1株と交換)を行う。変換できなかった株は、市場に置き、株の持ち主は、後継 会社の株価の1/2(端数切捨て)を銀行から得る。ストックの株式は、市場に置く。市場の株式の株式転換 を行う。その後、合併会社の株を後継会社(その経営ラウンドの会社)の株式と交換する。


Merger : first, the share price of the Merged Company is set by adding the prices of the two companies. Choose the closest leftmost price on the chart. The shareholders exchange their shares of the absorbed company with the "Merger"* share, two to one. Shares that couldn't be exchanged are put in the open market, and the shareholders obtain half the price of the merged company per share from the bank. The shares in the initial offering are put in the open market, then the open market exchanges its shares of the absorbed company. Finally, the "Merger" shares are exchanged for the shares of the Merger Company.

*the 9 "Merger" shares in the download files
 
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And I guess that explains the mystery of the merger box on the board: the merger shares must live there. Do you see any practical reason to use the merger shares, rather than just the company shares? It sounds like they're just a player aid, and the game will play the same without them.
 
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sbszine wrote:
And I guess that explains the mystery of the merger box on the board: the merger shares must live there. Do you see any practical reason to use the merger shares, rather than just the company shares? It sounds like they're just a player aid, and the game will play the same without them.


Yes, it would makes the game play more smoothly I think. As such, I don't think it should be left out of the rulebook; maybe add a variant without them as a side note; As for myself, I'm not a 18xx expert at all, so I'd tend to play strictly by the rules...
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Yeah, I think if they're in the Japanese rules they should be in the English ones, then interested folks can just houserule them out. I don't think we have English components for the merger shares, though, but I'm sure Ron is on the case. They are just a 1 x 20%, 8 x 10% set with Merger Company (合併会社) written on them.
 
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I asked for an merger example on the japanese forum, and Koguma san was nice enough to correct the one I submitted. Now much clearer!
Now how to intgrate that in the wiki...

Quote:
「合併の手順」

合併時の株式交換は、現在経営ラウンドを実行している会社の社長から右回りに行ってください。
20%の「合併会社」株券は、(可能ならば)現在経営ラウンドを実行している会社の社長の交換する株と交換してください。この株券は、後継会社の社長を明確にするために使用します。

「合併会社」の株は、プレイの助けとして使用するものですから、直接後継会社の株と交換してもかまいません。


合併の例
 名古屋電気鉄道 ストックに20% 市場に10% 株価125円
 渥美鉄道 ストックに10% 市場に20% 株価90円

Aさんは
 名古屋電気鉄道 50%
 渥美鉄道 40%

Bさんは
 名古屋電気鉄道 10%
 渥美鉄道 30%

Cさんは
 名古屋電気鉄道 20%

Aさんは、名古屋電気鉄道と渥美鉄道の合併を決定する(市場にある分を数えたら両社の株の60%が合併に賛成する)

1合併後の社名の決定
 「後継会社」の名称を名古屋電気鉄道か、渥美鉄道のどちらにするか決める。(ここでは、名古屋電気鉄道とする。)

2合併後の株価の決定
 合併後の「後継会社」名古屋電気鉄道の株価は、株価チャート最上段の200円(215円の最も左にある直近の株価)となるため、そこに株価マーカーを移動する。渥美鉄道の資金、列車と株価マーカー及び未使用の駅マーカー(以後名古屋電気鉄道の駅マーカーとして使用する)を名古屋電気鉄道の会社シートに移動する。渥美鉄道の基準株価マーカーを名古屋電気鉄道の会社シートに移動し、名古屋電気鉄道が渥美鉄道と合併した印とする。
・・・ルールに、「後継会社」の株価は、合併する会社の株価の合計を超えないと加えてください。

3株式の変換
・Aさんは名古屋電気鉄道の株50%、渥美鉄道の株40%の代わりに「合併会社」の株を40%(20%株1枚、10%株2枚)と100円を得る。合併に関係する2社の全ての株券は市場に出す。
・Bさんは名古屋電気鉄道の株10%、渥美鉄道の株30%の代わりに「合併会社」の株を20%(10%株2枚)を得る。合併に関係する2社の全ての株券は市場に出す。
・Cさんは名古屋電気鉄道の株20%の代わりにを「合併会社」の株を10%(10%株1枚)を得る。合併に関係する2社の全ての株券は市場に出す。
・ストックにある名古屋電気鉄道と渥美鉄道の株を市場におく。(この段階で、名古屋電気鉄道と渥美鉄道の株は全て市場に出ています。)
・渥美鉄道の株をストックに裏向きにもどす。以後渥美鉄道の株は使用できない。(二度と登場しない。)
・「合併会社」の株と市場の名古屋電気鉄道の株を交換する。
・市場の「合併会社」の株を合併会社のマスにもどす。(市場には、名古屋電気鉄道の株30%(10%株3枚)が残る。)

4列車保有制限の適用
・合併の結果、列車の保有制限(合併による保有制限の緩和あり)を超えている場合、超過分の列車を市場に出す。

5駅マーカーの調整
・「後継会社」名古屋電気鉄道の社長は、盤上から不要な駅マーカー及び駅マーカーの配置ルールに違反する駅マーカーを取り除き、名古屋電気鉄道の会社シートに移動する。

以後通常の経営ラウンドを継続する。(線路タイルを引いていなければ、線路タイルを引くことも出来ます。)

おまけ
合併の結果
Aさんは、985円分の資産が900円分の資産になり、85円の損、
Bさんは、395円分の資産が400円分の資産になり、5円の得、
Cさんは、250円分の資産が200円分の資産になり、50円の損
となります。


Merger Procedure

The share exchanges of a merger are made clockwise from the president of the company that is operating.

the 20% "Merger" share certificate should be exchanged if possible with the president share of the currently operating company. It is used to show who is the president of the post-merger company.

the "Merger" shares are used to ease play; it is possible to exchange directly with the shares of the post-merger company.

Example :
Nagoya Electric Railroad (N.E.R)
-- 20% in the IPO
-- 10% in the open market
-- share price 125¥

Atsumi Railroad (A.R.R)
-- 10% in the IPO
-- 20% in the open market
-- share price 90¥

Player A has
N.E.R : 50%
A.R.R : 40%

Player B has
N.E.R : 10%
A.R.R : 30%

Player C has
N.E.R : 20%

Player A decides to merge N.E.R with A.R.R (he can because the open market automatically approves mergers)

1 - Player A chooses the name of the post-merger company, as N.E.R

2 - The price of the N.E.R post merger will be 200¥ (closest number to the left on the chart), the N.E.R share price token is moved to 200¥. The cash, trains and leftover tokens of the A.R.R are moved to the N.E.R charter; the par price token of the A.R.R is also put on the N.E.R charter as a reminder. (the starting share price of the post-merger company can never be more than the sum of the share prices of both companies)

3 - Share exchanges
**Player A exchanges his 50% of N.E.R and 40% of A.R.R with 40% of 'Merger' shares (The President certificate and 2 shares), and gets 100¥. He then puts all his shares of both companies in the open market.
**Player B exchanges his 10% of N.E.R and 30% of A.R.R with 20% of 'Merger' shares (two 10% shares certificates). He then puts all his shares of both companies in the open market.
**Player C exchanges his 20% of N.E.R with 10% of the 'Merger' shares. He then puts his shares of the N.E.R in the open market.
**Shares of the N.E.R that are still in the initial offering are put in the open market, and the shares of the A.T.T are put face down in their box in the initial offering. The A.T.T shares will not be used again.
**All players now exchange the 'Merger' shares with the N.E.R shares in the open market. in that case the open market should hold 30% of the N.E.R

4 - Train limit
if the N.E.R has more trains than the limit (included the merger bonus), it has to discard the trains in excess.

5 - Station tokens
the president of the N.E.R can now take back from the board to the N.E.R charter as many tokens of both companies he wants, and has to remove the illegal tokens (tokens on double-slot cities with a one token each of the N.E.R and A.R.R)

the operating turn proceeds normally (if the merger was made at the beginning of the N.E.R operating round, then the N.E.R can now lay a tile and operate normally

addendum:
in the merger,
Player A had 985¥ got 900¥, loses 85¥
Player B had 395¥ got 400¥, gains 5¥
Player C had 250¥ got 200¥, loses 50¥
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I crammed the example into the wiki, and we can adjust the formatting at our leisure.
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When we played (with the original translation), we used the merger box but used the real shares. It did help ease the exchange. We moved the charter(s) to note the new president.

I haven't read through the new rules with sufficient attention to see if the method we used would still work.

Do odd-share count holders still end up screwed out of a share in the refined/clarified ruleset?

-Ron

PS: Now that I've read through the example, I think I would still follow the original approach (w/out the merger shares).

PPS: It would be useful to note why in step 3 the player is receiving cash as well as shares (assume it's 5% share of the 200yen due to the odd share).
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Odd shares get paid from the bank at half the post-merger price. Could be screwed, but could be a windfall, depending on which company the share belongs to.
 
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sbszine wrote:
Odd shares get paid from the bank at half the post-merger price. Could be screwed, but could be a windfall, depending on which company the share belongs to.


Makes for interesting choices - I'm all for that. I don't recall getting paid for odd shares (they just disappeared in the original rules - so this is not as nasty).

-Ron
 
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Yeah, the payout was one of the many things I mistranslated originally. It should be an entirely different and much better game when played with the actual rules.
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regarding the latest corrections in the wiki :

carthaginian wrote:
株式制限は、常に変動しますが、その制限を満たさなければならないのは、株式ラウンドの各自の手番終了時のみです。


Remember the share holding limit is enforced at the end of each player's turn.

and

rulebook wrote:

B 株式の購入(株式所有制限を超えるようには購入できない)

B BUYING SHARES (you cannot buy a share if you're already at your holding limit)


of course it may be rethorical...
 
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