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Formula D» Forums » Rules

Subject: Street race - Radar control and stopping at it rss

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Bruce Mason
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OK. You have to mark your speed when crossing the radar control line at the Police Station. Fastest wins 2WPs.
In our first game, one car stopped on the line in 4th, changed up to 5th and left the line. Question is, what counts as crossing?
a) Arriving
b) leaving?
 
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Stig Morten
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We play with crossing, so in your case it would be the fifth gear roll that counts.
Don't know if this is official or if there is even any official clarification.


EDIT:
Amended after the post below pointed out inconsistency in our rules.

I vote a).
 
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Tor Sverre Lund
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In my mind you cross a line as soon as you enter it. Do you also play that landing on the finish line isn't enough to have finished?

I'd go with a)
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Stig Morten
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Gawain wrote:
In my mind you cross a line as soon as you enter it. Do you also play that landing on the finish line isn't enough to have finished?


Good point, I don't know why we have that rule for the radar control, because we are finished when we land on the finish line.whistle

Thanks for pointing out the flawed ways in which we play the game.

We have to change the rule about radar control to comply with the rules for the finish line.

I vote for a) from now on.
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Steven Packard
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I probably shouldn't toss my two cents in without having the rules in front of me, but I believe that it's in the rules that landing on the finish line does not constitue winning. It's going beyond the finish line that counts.

If I'm correct in that, then by using the reasoning above I'd say the answer to the Radar question is choice b).
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Tor Sverre Lund
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I find it hard to believe that it's there :) It would be very counter-intuitive. I can't think of any race, game or real, that is finished when the entire racer has passed the line. There are probably examples, but a very small minority. I'll see if I can find it anyway.

EDIT: Here's what I found:

Basic rules:
Aim of the game
(...) be the first to cross the finishing line.(...)

Finish
The player whose car passes the finishing line first has won (...)
The race end when all cars have crossed the finishing line (...)

Advanced rules:
Aim of the game
(...) be the first to cross the finishing line.(...)

Finish
The player whose car passes the finishing line first has won (...)
The race end when all cars have crossed the finishing line (...)

Three-lap race
The first car to cross the finishing line (...)

Police station
Every time a player crosses this line (...)

Chalk this one up to semantics? I'm not a native English speaker, but the phrase "passes the finishing line" just screams FAIL! to me. Not sure if there's an official answer out there (I believe there was one for Formula Dé but couldn't find it right now), but my money's still on a)
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Rob Buchler
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Think about mathematics: a line has no width, just length, so it's automatically crossed as soon as it is touched.
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Steven Packard
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OK, I've finally had a chance to dig out the rules.

Part of my problem is that I have played Formula De for years and I keep assuming that all of the Formula De rules apply to Formula D, except for when D explicitly deviates from De's rules. That's what I was doing here.

For me personally I like that philosophy (Formula De unless Formula D deviates), but that doesn't mean that it's right, or right for everyone.

In the Formula De basic rules, under "Finishing the Race", it says:

Formula De Rules wrote:
The winner of the race is the first driver to completely cross the finish line. Landing on a space that straddles the line does not count as finishing. The race ends when all drivers still in the race have crossed the line.


(Emphasis mine.)

As was noted above, the Formula D rules, under "Finish", say:

Formula D Rules wrote:
The player whose car passes the finishing line first has won the race. The race ends when all cars have crossed the finishing line, in order to enable ranking.


In my opinion, the D rules don't contradict the De rules; but they don't clearly agree with them either. They seem ambiguously written, and a good case can be made for both interpretations.

But here's my take: It says when the car passes, not the nose, or any similar terminology. To me a car straddling the line is straddling it; it hasn't passed the line. Further, there's a precedence set with Formula De. I believe that if they wanted D's rules to differ from the explicit rules of De, they would have been just as explicit with D and say that a car straddling the finish line is considered to have passed it.

The absence of that sentence and the presence of the sentence in De's rules makes me believe that the intention is that nothing has changed in D to determine when a person has won the race.

Of course people can play it however they want to, and if the others in my race wanted to count straddling as a finish, I wouldn't hop up and down; I'd state my case once and then just go with the majority rule on the issue. The main thing is to make sure that everyone understands how you're playing it before the lead car comes barreling down on the Finish in the last lap of the race.

(Note: Yes, I understand that in the Real World the tip of the nose of the car is what determines the winner. But I don't think the Real World is at issue here.)
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Tor Sverre Lund
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I agree, cross is definatly the same as pass. And I share your pain concerning Dé vs D rules (I don't even own D yet), but have to admit I totally forgot that was the rule in Dé. We race FDé over a season (monthly races) and have quite a few rules added or "fixed", that being one of them I guess.

That being said, the original question was concerning the Radar Control, and they say "Every time a player crosses this line", not passes. Whichever way people decide to play, I'd suggest being consistent and using the same rule for all lines, as to not create more confusion.
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Bruce Mason
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Thanks for all the replies. Without a statement of intent (or at least clarification) from the authors it seems like it's the case of stick with your preferred interpretation.

Tactically it makes a difference because it's a reasonable tactic to try to land on or just before the line in 4th and then cross in 5th. I would guess that if I were a designer then I would be looking to try and reward that tactic.

I think for now I'll assume the old Formula De definition of being past the line for crossing it. I did once, very painfully, end on the finishing line after rolling 11 in 5th only to end up 2nd.
 
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Steven Packard
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Yeah, I've been caught more than once straddling the finish line, only to watch someone else snag the victory as a result. That's painful
 
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