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Because...

1) the Grave Weapons are really cool to have on your zombies

2) it's a PITA moving them all around with the little markers under them


I played my first game with SOTF last night, and we did "Supply Run", which uses the Manor House. While I barely got a chance to make use of the new Unique Items and Survival Tactics decks, the Grave Weapons were used almost constantly and to great effect by my friend and his son. They were quite often maxed out on the limit of 4 Grave Weapons each. So on several turns, they had 8 Grave Weapons Zombies to push around and there was a point when about 5 different Grave Weapons zombies, 2 Zombie Heroes and 3 Heroes were all moving around in the Manor House, bumping into the barricades there.

Suffice to say that when I was explaining the Grave Weapons at the beginning of the game I had said that while they sell a set of minis for them, I wasn't going to bother getting those... but by about halfway through the game I said, ah, you know what, I think I'm going to get those minis after all.

I know people have complained about the price point of these new LNOE expansions, and I do believe that the Grave Weapons mini set is still a chrome or luxury purchase compared to SOTF or the Hero Pack, but I think that if you intend to play this game often, you'll probably find like I did that it was a really great thing that they made these minis available and that the price (which I've seen for as low as $16.21 from Boards & Bits) is going to be worth it.
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Adam Brant
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A workaround for reason #2 is to keep a package of blue/yellow tack in the box (that stuff you use to hang pictures on a wall). It'll stick the token to the underside of the mini and is easy to remove without leaving markes on the token. This is what I do for Zombie Heroes. Works great.
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Yeah? But what about the red zombies? They'll still need the markers... (unless you got the preorders or you got yourself a second set)
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Stokes
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I actually sent them an email and asked Flying Frog if they would be releasing the red zombies for sale in the future. The response was that they were undecided.
 
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Adam Brant
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I'm not familiar with this expansion at. What's the issue with the Red zombies? And are you referring to the same red zombies that came with growing hunger?
 
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Jason Kendelhardt
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"Grave weapons" can be added to any zombie, thus the minis just let you swap out a "normal" brown or green zombie with an appropriately armed grave dead zombie.

So if you are playing a scenario with 21 zombies (the 7 red ones) AND grave weapons, you could theoretically be modifying a red zombie into a grave one, and not have a "red" grave zombie mini to do it with. This is easily solved by using the circular counter included in the "Grave Zombie" card set (to be used if you didn't by the minis) or I guess you could pull the wrong colored grave zombie mini and just mark it someway as being a red zombie.

Shouldn't be too difficult to cast some red grave zombie minis, but I don't think the ROI is really there. Then again, my wife is the dedicated zombie player in my house, so her opinion is the one that matters :P
 
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Nate Rethorn
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Flying Frog have already made red zombies with grave weapons. They were the special pre-order bonus for these three expansions. I'd love to be able to purchase them separately since I missed out on preordering.
 
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I got my pre-order pack yesterday and the new grave weapon minis are really well sculpted. I probably wouldn't have purchased them except for the red grave weapon zombie bonus figures. Not upset I bought them but the expansions were pretty expensive and they aren't really necessary. Though less fiddly I suppose then using the label disks.

One major problem I have is they blend in way too well on the board. At least with the label disks you could easily see them. I'm thinking of painting a silver or gold strip around the base so they stand out. Otherwise it will be easy to forget they are there.
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Adam Brant
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jason10mm wrote:
"Grave weapons" can be added to any zombie, thus the minis just let you swap out a "normal" brown or green zombie with an appropriately armed grave dead zombie.

So if you are playing a scenario with 21 zombies (the 7 red ones) AND grave weapons, you could theoretically be modifying a red zombie into a grave one, and not have a "red" grave zombie mini to do it with. This is easily solved by using the circular counter included in the "Grave Zombie" card set (to be used if you didn't by the minis) or I guess you could pull the wrong colored grave zombie mini and just mark it someway as being a red zombie.

Shouldn't be too difficult to cast some red grave zombie minis, but I don't think the ROI is really there. Then again, my wife is the dedicated zombie player in my house, so her opinion is the one that matters


well that makes sense. I should have quoted David's post with my reply. I thought maybe there was some reason you couldn't use blue tack to stick grave weapon markers to the bottom of the red zombies.
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Matt Lernout
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If we're talking a solution for Zombie Horde (21), it could be as easy as swapping the positions of the red zombie with a green or brown zombie from elsewhere on the board and then substituting the green/brown weapon mini.

It wouldn't work for Zombie Grave Dead if they can be armed with Grave Weapons. I'm under the impression that only "normal" zombies can be converted, but I haven't picked up SotF yet, so I'd need someone else to chime in on this.
 
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i got mine on the cheap at Boards & Bits and they will be here tomorrow! one day shipping cuz i live in WA
 
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James Murray
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Have to say of the three expansions this is really NOT worth the money (actually only SotF is the only one worth the money)...well, I will say its not worth the money here in the UK.

I received mine today and it cost £18.99 which works out as $29.80.

Now considering that Thoughthammer in the US are doing the set for $18.71, we, in the UK, are being charged $10 more than the US for each set.

Also, I have ordered in the past extra sets of zombies from FFP (and received promo cards with the order) and 14 zombie minis cost me $17.75 delivered. That means I have just paid out $12 for a cardboard box and a couple of counters.

Not exactly value for money!!


As I said a while back when these expansions were first announced, many will say "Well, you don't have to buy them" and of course they are right, it's just like everyone else I'd love the game and want everything for it.


BUT...if FFP insist on going the small box, lots of "mini" expansions route in the future, I will really have to think twice before buying them!!
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Nicholas Daley
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zombie67 wrote:
Have to say of the three expansions this is really NOT worth the money (actually only SotF is the only one worth the money)...well, I will say its not worth the money here in the UK.

I received mine today and it cost £18.99 which works out as $29.80.

Now considering that Thoughthammer in the US are doing the set for $18.71, we, in the UK, are being charged $10 more than the US for each set.

...

BUT...if FFP insist on going the small box, lots of "mini" expansions route in the future, I will really have to think twice before buying them!!


Wait, let me get this straight. You only paid $29.80 for the expansion and you live in the UK!?! That's actually an incredible price!

So you basically paid retail price of $25 and only $4.80 to have it shipped to the UK.

I'm failing to see where the problem is. You got a smokin' deal, dude.

As for the "mini" expansions, I don't really know what to tell you except maybe get with a few of your friends who also play this game and order a bunch of them at once through FFP's website.

I know you're upset about having to pay more because you live in the UK, but that's just life. I would love to purchase the TV series Dead Set, but guess what...I live in the US. If I want to buy it I have to get a special DVD player and then pay extra for the shipping. Sometimes things go your way, sometimes they don't. Don't rag on FFP because you happen to live in the UK. That's not Flying Frog's fault.

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James Murray
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Nickmodaily wrote:
zombie67 wrote:
Have to say of the three expansions this is really NOT worth the money (actually only SotF is the only one worth the money)...well, I will say its not worth the money here in the UK.

I received mine today and it cost £18.99 which works out as $29.80.

Now considering that Thoughthammer in the US are doing the set for $18.71, we, in the UK, are being charged $10 more than the US for each set.

...

BUT...if FFP insist on going the small box, lots of "mini" expansions route in the future, I will really have to think twice before buying them!!


Wait, let me get this straight. You only paid $29.80 for the expansion and you live in the UK!?! That's actually an incredible price!

So you basically paid retail price of $25 and only $4.80 to have it shipped to the UK.

I'm failing to see where the problem is. You got a smokin' deal, dude.

As for the "mini" expansions, I don't really know what to tell you except maybe get with a few of your friends who also play this game and order a bunch of them at once through FFP's website.

I know you're upset about having to pay more because you live in the UK, but that's just life. I would love to purchase the TV series Dead Set, but guess what...I live in the US. If I want to buy it I have to get a special DVD player and then pay extra for the shipping. Sometimes things go your way, sometimes they don't. Don't rag on FFP because you happen to live in the UK. That's not Flying Frog's fault.



You chose to miss out the following:
Quote:

Also, I have ordered in the past extra sets of zombies from FFP (and received promo cards with the order) and 14 zombie minis cost me $17.75 delivered. That means I have just paid out $12 for a cardboard box and a couple of counters.


I ask you do you think $12 for a cardboard box and 2 counters is worth it?

You also chose to ignore my point about Thoughthammer's price! If you paid $6 extra when you could have got it from TH for $19, that's your lookout.

I accept your point that when I buy a game which is produced in the US I have to pay a premium when it is imported here. The usual is around £7-10....

BUT.. my point was that because FFP decided to go the small box, mini-expansion route rather than one big box expansion, we had to pay 3 lots of the import premium, so the lot cost about £25 ($40) more than the US.

If the set had been released as one box, say priced at around $50 (£31), I would have paid 1 import premium making the price £38-40 ($60-64).

Dearer? yes!

Fairer? Absolutely!


I stand by my point that for me in the future if FFP insist one going the small box, mini-expansion route, I will have to seriously consider if it is worth buying.

In this vein, I have yet to buy AToE Hero Pack 1 and doubt I will do unless I can find it on sale somewhere.


Oh, and your point about bulk-buying with friends, all well and good unless, like me, you are a lone player who just games with his partner!
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Nicholas Daley
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Quote:

Also, I have ordered in the past extra sets of zombies from FFP (and received promo cards with the order) and 14 zombie minis cost me $17.75 delivered. That means I have just paid out $12 for a cardboard box and a couple of counters.

When you order extra zombies from Flying Frog's website (roughly $1 per figure), you're paying for figures that have already been designed and produced for the base game. The cost of designing and creating those figures was absorbed when Flying Frog made them for LNOE. And it's relatively easy for Flying Frog to order extra figures from their manufacturer when they order a new print run of the base game. "Hey, can you make 300 extra sets of zombies for us when you're cranking out the rest of the components?" They probably even save on shipping costs.

What you haven't considered is the extra work that goes into making seven unique sculpts. These are figures that had to be designed, created, proofed, perfected, tested and manufactured all on their own. It takes a lot more man hours to make these figures than it does to just order extra figures from the base game.

So, no, you're not paying $12 for a box and counters. You're paying for the man-hours and additional processes needed to make all of these unique figures.

If you liked the price through Thoughthammer so much, why didn't you buy it from them? They ship internationally.

US customers who bought this expansion through Thoughthammer paid $19 plus $9 for shipping. That comes to $28. That's only $2 less than you.

I really just don't see where the problem is. Am I missing something?

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James Murray
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Nickmodaily wrote:
Quote:

Also, I have ordered in the past extra sets of zombies from FFP (and received promo cards with the order) and 14 zombie minis cost me $17.75 delivered. That means I have just paid out $12 for a cardboard box and a couple of counters.

When you order extra zombies from Flying Frog's website (roughly $1 per figure), you're paying for figures that have already been designed and produced for the base game. The cost of designing and creating those figures was absorbed when Flying Frog made them for LNOE. And it's relatively easy for Flying Frog to order extra figures from their manufacturer when they order a new print run of the base game. "Hey, can you make 300 extra sets of zombies for us when you're cranking out the rest of the components?" They probably even save on shipping costs.

What you haven't considered is the extra work that goes into making seven unique sculpts. These are figures that had to be designed, created, proofed, perfected, tested and manufactured all on their own. It takes a lot more man hours to make these figures than it does to just order extra figures from the base game.

So, no, you're not paying $12 for a box and counters. You're paying for the man-hours and additional processes needed to make all of these unique figures.

If you liked the price through Thoughthammer so much, why didn't you buy it from them? They ship internationally.

US customers who bought this expansion through Thoughthammer paid $19 plus $9 for shipping. That comes to $28. That's only $2 less than you.

I really just don't see where the problem is. Am I missing something?




You seem to only want to read or answer part of my comments.

Your comments about NEW minis being more expensive than those already made is, I agree, a valid one but can we take it even further:-

To produce 3 small box sets rather than 1 big box one means that 3 boxes have to be "designed, created, proofed, perfected, tested and manufactured" and we then have to cover that cost.

A large box would be cost about a third (give or take), I imagine, to design, create, proof, perfect, test and manufacture (this part may be a bit more expensive) than 3 individual boxes.

Also, not exactly eco-friendly either.

Do you agree?


I would just like to point out that at the end of the day, all I did in my original post was to state my feelings in regard to the worth of this set.

I am entitled to feel the way I do, whether you agree with me or not.

I am also entitled to state my feelings in regard to FFP's decision to go the small-box mini expansion route.

As I have stated, if FFP continue to bring out small box, mini expansion sets, I will have to look at each seriously before I would consider buying them. This I have done with AToE HP1 and decided not to buy it.

If they bring out value for money, large box expansions, such as Growing Hunger & Something Wicked, they can pretty much guarantee a sale from me.

Now, I may be alone in my feelings about this and therefore the loss of my money will not mean much to FFP but if I am not alone and more decide to "pick & chose" which to buy, it may hit them a bit harder.

But hey, as I said, all of the above is just how I feel and is my opinion, be it right or wrong in your eyes or anyone else's!
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Nicholas Daley
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I've heard you and a number of other people ask the question: Why didn't Flying Frog just combine all these expansions?

In my opinion, here is why:

By releasing these sets separately they are allowing consumers to purchase them one at a time. A lot of gamers don't have $50 disposable income lying around to spend on an expansion. If someone did have that much money, they may be more likely to purchase a NEW board game. But now if someone goes into a game store and see a $25 expansion on the shelf, they are more likely to pick it up. In the consumer's eyes, $25 is not that big of a deal. It's a lot easier to justify the purchase.

If Flying Frog had released these three expansions three months apart from each other, people wouldn't be saying that they should all be combined into one single expansion. They would just be excited that Flying Frog was releasing expansions on a regular basis.

However, by releasing them all at once, Flying Frog is allowing the consumer to buy them all at once to save on shipping costs. Personally, I think this is a fantastic idea.

While this may not be a perfect situation for everyone, I believe that it works well for the majority of the consumers out there. And if you don't like it, then, YES, it's your choice to not purchase one of the three expansions.

If you were to purchase all three expansions from Thoughthammer it would come to $56.13. That's only six dollars more expensive than the price you feel these expansions are worth. And shipping from Thoughthammer is the same price for all three expansions combined or for a Growing Hunger sized expansion. So you're not losing money there either.

You keep bringing up the cost of these expansions as though they are WAAAAY more expensive than they actually are. Hey, it's your right to complain in a public forum about having to spend $6 more than you feel you have to. Just be prepared for some people to disagree with your assessment of $6 being a deal-breaker. For most people that's not a good enough reason to complain.
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James Murray
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I understand that you think the small-box expansions are good, I don't, simple as that.

1 Big box set (LNoE, AToE, GH, SW etc) costs me £30-35.

3 Small Boxes (SotF, HP1, ZwGW) costs me £56


I know which I would rather buy!

So I stand by my point, if they insist on the multiple, small box expansions, I will have to really pick and chose which to buy, if any.

If they bring out big box expansions they can pretty much guarantee a sale from me.

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If you have to pay for shipping to the UK from US retailers, I take it that Flying Frog have a much smaller market in the UK than the US. From a business perspective, then, it makes sense for them to cater their products to the US market, even if that results in the loss of some UK customers.

It's easy to see why it's in your interest for them to package things in a way that makes it less expensive for you. But it's just as easy to see why it's in their interest to package things in a way that increases their overall revenue. The conflict between what's in your interest and their interest is frustrating, of course, but they're a small company making a luxury product during a bad recession.
 
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Noumena wrote:
If you have to pay for shipping to the UK from US retailers, I take it that Flying Frog have a much smaller market in the UK than the US. From a business perspective, then, it makes sense for them to cater their products to the US market, even if that results in the loss of some UK customers.

It's easy to see why it's in your interest for them to package things in a way that makes it less expensive for you. But it's just as easy to see why it's in their interest to package things in a way that increases their overall revenue. The conflict between what's in your interest and their interest is frustrating, of course, but they're a small company making a luxury product during a bad recession.


I actually buy from a UK supplier, IGUK, who provide a great service and the best prices they can and also the option of free shipping.

I take Nickmodaily's point about buying them 1 at a time etc. but again just using Thoughthammer's prices as a guide(excluding the $9 shipping which is the same for all orders) to buy all 3 sets in the US would have cost you guys $56.13, where as big box sets only costs $27-37 or 2 months saving of $18 if that's all you can spare a month.


Jason stated before they were released that to produce them in 1 box would have meant that they would have cost more than the original game.

Do you folks agree with that statement?

I don't!

If you compare the contents of the 3 small sets to the original game, there is far more in that 1 box than in the 3 put together - board pieces, more cards, more Hero Minis and cards, dice, CD etc.

So how would it have been more expensive than the original set?

I grant you that a company may not want to release an expansion priced at the same price as its original game but would the cost of the contents in 1 box really be that more expensive that GH?


I want to point out that I love Last Night on Earth, as I do A Touch of Evil and I am looking forward to the Invasion game. I want to keep buying their games and supporting the company but in the same instant I am not going to just throw my money away if I don't feel what they produce is value for money.

I have already made that decision with the AtoE Hero Pack 1, I hope I don't have to start with LNoE!
 
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♫ Eric Herman ♫
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zombie67 wrote:
I take Nickmodaily's point about buying them 1 at a time etc. but again just using Thoughthammer's prices as a guide(excluding the $9 shipping which is the same for all orders) to buy all 3 sets in the US would have cost you guys $56.13, where as big box sets only costs $27-37 or 2 months saving of $18 if that's all you can spare a month.


You can't really base the current prices offered for LNOE and GH as a comparison to what is being charged for SOTF/HP1/GW. LNOE and GH have been out for quite a long time now, and are at a discounted rate. The other expansions are brand new and will be closer to full MSRP. But they are already available for only $16 at some places online, and probably after a year they'll all be discounted accordingly.

zombie67 wrote:

Jason stated before they were released that to produce them in 1 box would have meant that they would have cost more than the original game.

Do you folks agree with that statement?

I don't!

If you compare the contents of the 3 small sets to the original game, there is far more in that 1 box than in the 3 put together - board pieces, more cards, more Hero Minis and cards, dice, CD etc.

So how would it have been more expensive than the original set?


Changes in production prices, shipping prices, packaging, artwork, etc. Not to mention that the original game has had several runs now, which probably means a substantial discount for re-upping on that (if that's what he was basing the comparison on). It's also possible that a special deal was available for that particular size of box that was not available for the larger LNOE/GH box size.

I'm sure Jason would not share the exact costs of things, but I imagine it's rather staggering. They have to do what they feel is best as a company to maintain their business. Of course, you have a right to complain and to choose not to buy anything. I feel they're worth the price, regardless, because it's a game I play a lot. Sure, I'd rather have paid $50 for everything in one box, as opposed to $75 for all three in different boxes (especially when I'm going to shove everything from those three boxes into one box, anyway), but to me, it was still worth getting.
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Quote:
Jason stated before they were released that to produce them in 1 box would have meant that they would have cost more than the original game.

Do you folks agree with that statement?

I don't!

If you compare the contents of the 3 small sets to the original game, there is far more in that 1 box than in the 3 put together - board pieces, more cards, more Hero Minis and cards, dice, CD etc.

So how would it have been more expensive than the original set?

Well, let's go back to the 7 unique sculpts that I talked about earlier. Those are pretty expensive to produce. You're also getting twice as many zombie figures as you did in GH. And GH was able to reuse the existing sculpts. The sculpts probably account for a big portion of the price of the new expansion.

Also, all of the smaller expansions combined include 5 scenarios, and not just 3 that GH did. That's a lot more man-hours in playtesting and tweaking in order to get these scenarios just right.

The GH expansion included a lot of extra dots rules, but if you look at them, they are pretty simple. You can add Hero extra cards, auto-spawn, 21 zombies, etc. They don't really compare to the new rules added to with the SOTF expansion. Those rules rely on a whole new set of cards. I'm sure the amount of time spent testing these new rules and cards was gigantic. Jason mentioned in another thread that he has been testing these rules since before the LNOE base game was even released. That's a lot of time.

And I agree that you should never release an expansion that costs more than the base game. Can you imagine the backlash they would have received for doing something like that? I understand the need to distribute these in three separate packages in order for it to be profitable. I can't see any other way they could have release these sets.

One last thing: Look at the three free web scenarios that FFP has given us. C'mon, you gotta give a little extra love to a company that gives away free stuff like that.
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Nickmodaily wrote:
Quote:
Jason stated before they were released that to produce them in 1 box would have meant that they would have cost more than the original game.

Do you folks agree with that statement?

I don't!

If you compare the contents of the 3 small sets to the original game, there is far more in that 1 box than in the 3 put together - board pieces, more cards, more Hero Minis and cards, dice, CD etc.

So how would it have been more expensive than the original set?

Well, let's go back to the 7 unique sculpts that I talked about earlier. Those are pretty expensive to produce. You're also getting twice as many zombie figures as you did in GH. And GH was able to reuse the existing sculpts. The sculpts probably account for a big portion of the price of the new expansion.

Also, all of the smaller expansions combined include 5 scenarios, and not just 3 that GH did. That's a lot more man-hours in playtesting and tweaking in order to get these scenarios just right.

The GH expansion included a lot of extra dots rules, but if you look at them, they are pretty simple. You can add Hero extra cards, auto-spawn, 21 zombies, etc. They don't really compare to the new rules added to with the SOTF expansion. Those rules rely on a whole new set of cards. I'm sure the amount of time spent testing these new rules and cards was gigantic. Jason mentioned in another thread that he has been testing these rules since before the LNOE base game was even released. That's a lot of time.

And I agree that you should never release an expansion that costs more than the base game. Can you imagine the backlash they would have received for doing something like that? I understand the need to distribute these in three separate packages in order for it to be profitable. I can't see any other way they could have release these sets.

One last thing: Look at the three free web scenarios that FFP has given us. C'mon, you gotta give a little extra love to a company that gives away free stuff like that.


I notice. yet again, that when you answer me, Nickmodaily, you pick and chose which bits of my posts to quote.

The only time I used GH as a comparison was in my question:

Quote:
...but would the cost of the contents in 1 box really be that more expensive that GH?



At all times, I talked about the contents of the base game, in relation to Jason' s statement that:

Quote:
to produce them in 1 box would have meant that they would have cost more than the original game.



So using your points as a basis of a reply to you:

Quote:
1) let's go back to the 7 unique sculpts that I talked about earlier. Those are pretty expensive to produce. You're also getting twice as many zombie figures as you did in GH. And GH was able to reuse the existing sculpts. The sculpts probably account for a big portion of the price of the new expansion.


In the ORIGINAL game (as stated by me) you got 15 new, unique scuplts and 22 minis in total!


Quote:
2)Also, all of the smaller expansions combined include 5 scenarios, and not just 3 that GH did. That's a lot more man-hours in playtesting and tweaking in order to get these scenarios just right.


LNoE also contained 5 scenarios, with the same amount of play-testing etc.


Quote:
3) The GH expansion included a lot of extra dots rules, but if you look at them, they are pretty simple. You can add Hero extra cards, auto-spawn, 21 zombies, etc. They don't really compare to the new rules added to with the SOTF expansion. Those rules rely on a whole new set of cards. I'm sure the amount of time spent testing these new rules and cards was gigantic. Jason mentioned in another thread that he has been testing these rules since before the LNOE base game was even released. That's a lot of time.


LNoE was a whole brand new game and rules system, so maybe a touch more testing etc. than SotF.


Quote:
4) And I agree that you should never release an expansion that costs more than the base game. Can you imagine the backlash they would have received for doing something like that? I understand the need to distribute these in three separate packages in order for it to be profitable. I can't see any other way they could have release these sets.


We agree on something!

I am sure there would have been a backlash but equally I am sure there would have been a great number of voices in support of FFP,. I assume you would be leading them.


Quote:
5) One last thing: Look at the three free web scenarios that FFP has given us. C'mon, you gotta give a little extra love to a company that gives away free stuff like that.


I'm sorry but are you saying that I should be happy to pay £15 more for what I feel to be not much more than a £40-max expansion because the company have produced a few web scenarios??

If I have to absorb the price of any up-coming free web scenarios into the next expansion set,as you seem to be suggesting, surely that no longer makes them free?

Or are you saying as they are giving us some free web scenarios we should cut them some slack and not speak-up if we feel something is over-priced?



Grudunza wrote:
Quote:

Changes in production prices, shipping prices, packaging, artwork, etc. Not to mention that the original game has had several runs now, which probably means a substantial discount for re-upping on that (if that's what he was basing the comparison on). It's also possible that a special deal was available for that particular size of box that was not available for the larger LNOE/GH box size.

I'm sure Jason would not share the exact costs of things, but I imagine it's rather staggering. They have to do what they feel is best as a company to maintain their business. Of course, you have a right to complain and to choose not to buy anything. I feel they're worth the price, regardless, because it's a game I play a lot. Sure, I'd rather have paid $50 for everything in one box, as opposed to $75 for all three in different boxes (especially when I'm going to shove everything from those three boxes into one box, anyway), but to me, it was still worth getting.



Thanks Grudunza for your post.

I agree that costs have almost certainly gone up. In fact the prices for LNoE, GH, & AToE have all increased over here by about £5 each rather than come down.

One point I raised which has not been answered by anyone yet(though it may be dismissed as a hippy, tree-loving point by some) is the eco-friendly aspect of releasing multiple box expansions compared to 1 box!

You state, Grudunza that you will ultimately throwaway (re-cycle I hope) the extra boxes. I am sure most of us will end up doing the same.

Wouldn't it be better for a company in this day and age to be seen to be limiting the amount of packaging rather than increasing it.

Before anybody says there is less cardboard in a small box compared to a big, I know but there is more total area of cardboard in all 3 expansions than 1 large one:

Large Box = 3480 squared inches

Small Box = 1848 squared inches x 3 = 5544 squared inches.

That is to say nothing of the platsic inserts and cellophane wrappings etc.


How about this as a suggestion to FFP that maybe we can all see as a benefit:

They release an expansion along the lines of GH through the usual channels and the follow up with expansion specific add-on bits through the website with no extraneous packaging and therefore less cost on a monthly or bi-monthly rota at a price which is fair to the buyer, whilst still being higher than they would have to sell it to a wholesale supplier?

We get value for money products.

FFP get more money straight to the company, minus wholesaler discounts etc.

There is less packaging produced, which would look good for the company in the current climate.


Anybody think it's a good idea?
 
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Nicholas Daley
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James, you're comparing the contents of the base game with the contents of an expansion. You can't do that. The entire business stragegy relies on the companies making the majority of their profits on the expansions or additional pieces sold to consumers after they have already invested in the original product.

For example, look at Xbox and Playstation. Do you think they make any money off their initial sale of a console? If they do, I'm sure it's very little. They make the majority of their money on the GAMES that they sell.

Similarily, look at the board game Heroscape. That sells for around $40. That is an awesome deal for all the contents in that box. Seriously, that box is heavy. But if you buy four small Heroscape booster packs at $12 each, you've just spent more than you spent on the base game of Heroscape. That is where the company is making it's money. Again, Heroscape has split up their expansions into smaller pieces just like Flying Frog. It's a sound business decision that most people approve of.

You can't really compare a base game with the expansions. The base game will ALWAYS look like a better deal in regards to the contents to price ratio.

I assumed that you knew this already which is why I only compared these expansion to Growing Hunger. But I'm glad that I could educate you.

So now your arguement has been widdled down to the cost savings of a box and minimal packaging. Yes, I'm sure that Flying Frog could have saved a dollar or two on their packaging by making one big box instead of three smaller ones. But then they would have had to lower the price of the expansion by $25 in order to make it the same price as the base game. This doesn't sound like a smart move to me.

In regards to the FREE stuff, what I'm saying that FFP is a company that takes care of it's fans. This is evidenced by the fact that they continue to provide free products and support their games here on BGG. Their customer service is exceptional and they are always quick to answer any questions. Based on this, I'm sure that they do their best to market and produce their products in a way that will please their fans as well as help their bottom line. They are obviously not like the larger game companies that really don't give a crap about the consumer. I think they took a lot of time debating how to release these expansions and this is what they came up with. I trust their business decisions because of their track record. I'm sure they know this business more than you or me.

I think the real problem is that your government taxes US goods too much. Maybe you need to complain to them.
 
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James Murray
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Nickmodaily wrote:
James, you're comparing the contents of the base game with the contents of an expansion. You can't do that. The entire business stragegy relies on the companies making the majority of their profits on the expansions or additional pieces sold to consumers after they have already invested in the original product.

For example, look at Xbox and Playstation. Do you think they make any money off their initial sale of a console? If they do, I'm sure it's very little. They make the majority of their money on the GAMES that they sell.

Similarily, look at the board game Heroscape. That sells for around $40. That is an awesome deal for all the contents in that box. Seriously, that box is heavy. But if you buy four small Heroscape booster packs at $12 each, you've just spent more than you spent on the base game of Heroscape. That is where the company is making it's money. Again, Heroscape has split up their expansions into smaller pieces just like Flying Frog. It's a sound business decision that most people approve of.

You can't really compare a base game with the expansions. The base game will ALWAYS look like a better deal in regards to the contents to price ratio.

I assumed that you knew this already which is why I only compared these expansion to Growing Hunger. But I'm glad that I could educate you.

So now your arguement has been widdled down to the cost savings of a box and minimal packaging. Yes, I'm sure that Flying Frog could have saved a dollar or two on their packaging by making one big box instead of three smaller ones. But then they would have had to lower the price of the expansion by $25 in order to make it the same price as the base game. This doesn't sound like a smart move to me.

In regards to the FREE stuff, what I'm saying that FFP is a company that takes care of it's fans. This is evidenced by the fact that they continue to provide free products and support their games here on BGG. Their customer service is exceptional and they are always quick to answer any questions. Based on this, I'm sure that they do their best to market and produce their products in a way that will please their fans as well as help their bottom line. They are obviously not like the larger game companies that really don't give a crap about the consumer. I think they took a lot of time debating how to release these expansions and this is what they came up with. I trust their business decisions because of their track record. I'm sure they know this business more than you or me.

I think the real problem is that your government taxes US goods too much. Maybe you need to complain to them.



Okay, I concede!

I stand corrected and educated. Thank you.

They are all well worth the price and we should not question FFP on any decision they make and when we start getting single Heroes in a pack like Descent etc. I am sure you will enjoy collecting the lot.

By the way, you don't work for FFP, do you??

If not I am sure you could get a great PR job with them!



Just so you know, I do not own Heroscape because I felt that the price of the booster sets etc. were exorbitant! So didn't buy the base set.

Same reason I don't own Heroclix, Wings of War, Star Wars miniatures etc.

I own Arkham Horror (which was kindly given to me as a Birthday present) but only own the big box expansions, as I feel the small box ones are not worth the money I would have to pay.

So, it looks like I will have to go the same route with FFP's products - pick and choose the ones which I feel are worth the money and ignore the rest. I seem to be alone in those feelings, so it shouldn't effect FFP's profit-margin too much.


Oh and still only answering certain points I see!

Eco-friendliness of the products??

My idea about Expansion specific web-only add-ons??

None of these took your interest??

Oh well!
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