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Subject: Living in fear of the Bible (for Koldfoot) rss

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Chad Ellis
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Koldfoot wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
I don't know who's goofier, that clown or the clowns who live in fear that their children will be exposed to a Bible.

You are only kidding yourself.
I know nobody who does that. Most of atheists parents I know are willing to give a complete education to their children, and in our culture that includes the Bible.
I understand your willingness to balance dictionnary fear with Bible fear, but it's just a delusion.
laugh laugh Try introducing a bible into the schools. See which news story stirs up more hysteria on the side which is opposed.

Delusional? Whatever.


This struck me as hard to believe. I'm an atheist and have no beef with the Bible or with kids being exposed to it in school. Nor do any other atheists I know, including the really strident ones. What many of us do object to is school prayer or classes that teach Christianity as the true faith -- but the idea that introducing the Bible into a school library would stir up hysteria didn't sound right.

Then it occurred to me that I have no idea if my daughter's public school library has a Bible or not. Maybe Koldfoot is right? So I checked.

Well, it has the Bible. It also has dozens of books about the Bible, bible stories, etc., such as Bible Stories for Children, A Young Child's Bible, Noah's Ark, etc., etc.

I live in a very liberal and very secular community. When the rest of Massachusetts was voting for Scott Brown, Brookline went strongly for Coakley. I'm sure there are more liberal areas of the country, but Brookline, MA has to be in the top 5%.
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True Blue Jon
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I don't see a problem with the same people that would want to ban the dictionary for containing "oral sex" wanting to ban the Bible for doing the same.

Perhaps there's a false assumption here that these are two separate groups of people.
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DCAnderson wrote:
quozl wrote:
I don't see a problem with the same people that would want to ban the dictionary for containing "oral sex" wanting to ban the Bible for doing the same.

Perhaps there's a false assumption here that these are two separate groups of people.


I don't think "idiots" technically counts as a voting bloc.


Not when it's the only one.
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Chad Ellis
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quozl wrote:
I don't see a problem with the same people that would want to ban the dictionary for containing "oral sex" wanting to ban the Bible for doing the same.

Perhaps there's a false assumption here that these are two separate groups of people.


Perhaps, perhaps not. I've met (in person or online) maybe a dozen people who want to ban books of some sort. All but one were members of a fundamentalist religious group. (The one was a secular fundamentalist and wanted to ban things she considered racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.)

In any case, I wasn't addressing the dictionary thing. I agree with Koldfoot that this is likely a tempest in a teacup, with a small group getting something started that will be reversed now that people are aware of it. Instead I was addressing his other assertion, that even trying to introduce a Bible to a public school would cause far greater hysteria. This sounded to me like another one of those myths about how Christianity has been removed entirely from the public schools, so I figured I'd check next door at my daughter's K-8.
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Same here.I think that the Bible should be studied both as a religious text and as a literary text. We did the first in our Philosophy class, in a section of the course called "Comparative religion". Pretty nice stuff.
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
This sounded to me like another one of those myths about how Christianity has been removed entirely from the public schools, so I figured I'd check next door at my daughter's K-8.


Excellent! But then why did you add the liberal and secular stuff to the end of your post?
 
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Chad Ellis
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The J wrote:
Interesting. When I read his post I thought "Introduce the bible in school" meant as a textbook, not as a library book. But the thread was about books available in the library, so who knows.


Koldfoot can clarify his intent, if he chooses. I assumed he was making a comparison. I would have no problem with the Bible being used as a textbook in a high school class of comparative religion, for example, as long as it was being taught as such.

Quote:
No, I don't care, or know, if the bible is available as a library book at any of the local schools.


I think it absolutely should be there. The default for public libraries should be to include books that are significant. Regardless of what you or I think of the Bible, it's obviously a major book in our history and merits inclusion in any public library.
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Chad Ellis
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quozl wrote:
Chad_Ellis wrote:
This sounded to me like another one of those myths about how Christianity has been removed entirely from the public schools, so I figured I'd check next door at my daughter's K-8.


Excellent! But then why did you add the liberal and secular stuff to the end of your post?


Because I infer Koldfoot to mean that the opposition to having Bibles in public schools comes from the secular left. Pointing out that a public K-8 school library has Bibles and lots of Bible-related stories and literature seems more relevant as a rebuttal than one from the Bible Belt.
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
I think it absolutely should be there. The default for public libraries should be to include books that are significant. Regardless of what you or I think of the Bible, it's obviously a major book in our history and merits inclusion in any public library.


Hear hear!
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Seems like the a similar phenomena to the War On Xmas. All smoke, no fire.
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Chad Ellis
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Geosphere wrote:
Chad_Ellis wrote:
I think it absolutely should be there. The default for public libraries should be to include books that are significant. Regardless of what you or I think of the Bible, it's obviously a major book in our history and merits inclusion in any public library.


Hear hear!


Sure, I'd have no problem with it in "book on tape" form, either.
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quozl wrote:
I don't see a problem with the same people that would want to ban the dictionary for containing "oral sex" wanting to ban the Bible for doing the same.


Where is there oral sex in the Bible? wow
 
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col_w wrote:
quozl wrote:
I don't see a problem with the same people that would want to ban the dictionary for containing "oral sex" wanting to ban the Bible for doing the same.


Where is there oral sex in the Bible? wow


It is vague but some have thought it is referred to in Song of Solomon.
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The J wrote:

Would I teach my kids about the bible? Wouldn't waste my time, there is so much factual stuff that could be useful to them in life that I'll never teach them all of that!

There are plenty of stuff with no apparent usefulness that I think are very important in education.
The study of latin springs to mind. Poetry, too.
And you cannot understand the world around us without understanding what religion is a
I realise I must come as snotty, but I thing that without those things, education is incomplete.
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col_w wrote:
quozl wrote:
I don't see a problem with the same people that would want to ban the dictionary for containing "oral sex" wanting to ban the Bible for doing the same.


Where is there oral sex in the Bible? wow


OK, let's take a moment, step back from literalism, go with the allegory, and give some thought to the forbidden fruit a woman eats and the snake that appears after it.
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The J wrote:
Would I teach my kids about the bible? Wouldn't waste my time, there is so much factual stuff that could be useful to them in life that I'll never teach them all of that!


Then you raise them in a cultural vaccuum.

Much like not knowing who Darth Vader is. Certain things are so huge that they really should be experienced and acknowledged to allow proper exchange of ideas, context and symbolism.
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DarthXaos wrote:
The Bible is the best argument for atheism available.


Makes you wonder why more atheists don't comment on my threads, doesn't it?
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quozl wrote:
DarthXaos wrote:
The Bible is the best argument for atheism available.


Makes you wonder why more atheists don't comment on my threads, doesn't it?


They don't believe in you.
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Geosphere wrote:
quozl wrote:
DarthXaos wrote:
The Bible is the best argument for atheism available.


Makes you wonder why more atheists don't comment on my threads, doesn't it?


They don't believe in you.


But there's always room for jello!
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col_w
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quozl wrote:
col_w wrote:

Where is there oral sex in the Bible? wow


It is vague but some have thought it is referred to in Song of Solomon.


This bit?

"As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons. I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste."

I learn a lot of stuff in here - thanks!
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col_w wrote:
quozl wrote:
col_w wrote:

Where is there oral sex in the Bible? wow


It is vague but some have thought it is referred to in Song of Solomon.


This bit?

"As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons. I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste."

I learn a lot of stuff in here - thanks!


That's one bit, yes.
 
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I am firmly pro-Bible in schools and would oppose any attempts to take it out. The KJV specifically should be in there just as much as Shakespeare should, as part of the history of Western culture and the English language.

I think a lot of the "OMG they're against THE BIBLE!!1!" comes from the Religious Right, who are all too happy to equate "the state won't promote my beliefs" with "the state is persecuting my beliefs." Witness the various freakouts over the end of teacher-led prayers (that allowed student-initiated prayers to continue), or over ot being able to put up Nativity sets on public property while excluding everything else.
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quozl wrote:
DarthXaos wrote:
The Bible is the best argument for atheism available.


Makes you wonder why more atheists don't comment on my threads, doesn't it?
I just saw Braveheart. Now I really feel like discussing Scottish history with someone. But discussing it with someone who really thinks everything in the movie is true would only be interesting up to one point. After a while, the fact that my conversation partner really believes that William Wallace had an affair with the princess of Wales would make me want to move on to another topic, far from Braveheart.
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Mondainai wrote:
quozl wrote:
DarthXaos wrote:
The Bible is the best argument for atheism available.


Makes you wonder why more atheists don't comment on my threads, doesn't it?
I just saw Braveheart. Now I really feel like discussing Scottish history with someone. But discussing it with someone who really thinks everything in the movie is true would only be interesting up to one point. After a while, the fact that my conversation partner really believes that William Wallace had an affair with the princess of Wales would make me want to move on to another topic, far from Braveheart.


It's interesting that you mix the two: Scottish history and Braveheart.

If you said you wanted to talk about Braveheart with me and then talked about Scottish history instead, I'd get a little annoyed as they have very little to do with each other.
 
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The J wrote:
col_w wrote:

Where is there oral sex in the Bible? wow


gotta infer it with Lot's daughters in Genesis.

"Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father."

Now I don't know about you but after drinking a lot of wine oral sex is usually required to get the blood flowing for the "lie with" stage.


The issue should be the whole, lie with OUR FATHER part. The "ban Harry Potter" crowd must have skipped that part.
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