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Subject: "Destroy 2 Tri or 1 Rect" problems (less than 2 Tri units) rss

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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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In a battle last night a chaos sorcerer triggered his special ability. Her opponent had a triangle unit, a few square units, and two routed triangle units. He chose to "destroy two triangle units". The chaos player said this wasn't allowed, because he only had one standing and he had to kill the standing units (square) before killing the triangle ones. What he said, though, was that he could choose to kill the triangle ones because he had at least two, but that rule only meant he had to kill a standing one before a routed one. So there are three situations called into question:

I have one standing Tri unit, one routed, and one square. Can I still pick or do I have to kill the square unit? We said no.

If I have two routed Tri units and a square, we said you'd have to pick the square (standing before routed).

Now, if you had one tri unit and one square, what happens? Can I pick tri then say "oh well only had one" or do I have to complete the requirements to the best of my ability? I would think that if I get to pick, I get to pick, tough cookies to the chaos player.
 
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Mark Bond
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Re: "Destroy 2 Tri or 1 Rect" problems (less than 1 Tri)
I've had the same questions.

The rules are pretty clear that you have to destroy standing units before routed ones, so it seems to me that if you have, say, one standing triangle and two routed, you can't pick the two routed ones to destroy, you'd have to pick the standing triangle and then one of the routed ones.

My concern was the "what if I have one triangle and one square unit" question - can I pick "2 triangle" and lose just that one unit?

Although this is not said in the rules, my feeling is that you have to resolve an ability to the fullest extent possible - therefore, if you had only one triangle and one (or more) square units, you would have to choose square, since in this case you CANNOT CHOOSE two triangle units to be destroyed, because you only have one. But I am not really sure. An official word on this would be appreciated.

Also, what if you only have one triangle unit, and no squares? Or what if you have one square and no triangles - could you still choose "two triangles" in order to save your square unit?

As you said, seems to me you have to complete the requirements as fully as possible, so you'd really only have a choice if you actually had two triangles and a square in the battle.

Anyway, good questions.
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Brett Burgess
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Re: "Destroy 2 Tri or 1 Rect" problems (less than 1 Tri)
Here is what is listed in the rules and on the Uthuk faction sheet:

Rules - Page 22: When a player is forced to damage or destroy one of his units, he must always choose a standing unit if able (as opposed to a routed one).

Uthuk Faction Sheet - Warlock Special Ability: Rain Fire: Your opponent must destroy 2 of his triangle units or 1 of his rectangle/square units (his choice).

Raolin wrote:
Although this is not said in the rules, my feeling is that you have to resolve an ability to the fullest extent possible - therefore, if you had only one triangle and one (or more) square units, you would have to choose square, since in this case you CANNOT CHOOSE two triangle units to be destroyed, because you only have one. But I am not really sure. An official word on this would be appreciated.


I agree with Raolin. Because the warlock special ability says "must destroy 2 of his triangle units or 1 of his rectangle/square units", I feel that you are not fulling this special ability requirement properly if you destroy your single remaining triangle unit when you have a rectangle/square unit remaining. Now, if the rectangle/square unit was already routed, then destroying the single triangle unit would be the proper thing to do.

In the case of having 1 standing triangle unit, 1 (or more) routed triangle unit(s), and 1 (or more) standing rectangle/square unit(s), things get a little more fuzzy. I think in this case that the player could either choose to lose the 1 rectangle/square unit or 2 triangle units (1 standing, 1 routed). The player is losing 1 standing unit in both situations (which effects final strength) and the player is (in my opinion) fulfilling the rule "When a player is forced to damage or destroy one of his units, he must always choose a standing unit if able (as opposed to a routed one)" as the first unit he destroyed was a standing unit.
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László Horváth
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I haven't played the game yet, but based on the rulebook I would say that the "choose standing units first, and routed after" rule comes AFTER the choice of which type You want to destroy.

So,
1. If You have 1 tri unit, then You have to choose square
2. If You have at least 2 tri units, regardless of routed or not, You can choose to destroy Tri units -> afterwards, when You pick which triangle units to destroy, You have to pick standing first.

This is how I understand. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Laszlo
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Drake Coker
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horlaci wrote:
I haven't played the game yet, but based on the rulebook I would say that the "choose standing units first, and routed after" rule comes AFTER the choice of which type You want to destroy.

So,
1. If You have 1 tri unit, then You have to choose square
2. If You have at least 2 tri units, regardless of routed or not, You can choose to destroy Tri units -> afterwards, when You pick which triangle units to destroy, You have to pick standing first.

This is how I understand. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Laszlo


This interpretation seems the most straightforward to me. It also seems clear that we could use a clarifying ruling!
 
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Dave O
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horlaci wrote:
I haven't played the game yet, but based on the rulebook I would say that the "choose standing units first, and routed after" rule comes AFTER the choice of which type You want to destroy.

So,
1. If You have 1 tri unit, then You have to choose square
2. If You have at least 2 tri units, regardless of routed or not, You can choose to destroy Tri units -> afterwards, when You pick which triangle units to destroy, You have to pick standing first.

This is how I understand. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Laszlo


I also agree with this interpretation and this is how I intend to resolve this situation. Official errata may change my opinion.

Thanks for the good questions and clarification!
 
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