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Campaign Manager 2008» Forums » Rules

Subject: More rules clarification questions rss

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Fred Beukema
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Played twice with my wife this evening, using the "All of Them" variant -- no drafting, 45-card decks. I was Obama (or rather David Plouffe) both times, won a landslide first, and lost a squeaker second. I kept track of some questions as we played. I've put my speculative answers, and current house rulings, after each. If anyone agrees or disagrees with my interpretations, I'd be interested to hear your rationales...

...especially if you designed the thing...

1. A player wins a state by going negative. Does the other player roll the die before or after a new state is brought into play and a ZNN card resolved?

I suspect that the die happens before the won state goes away.

2. A player plays the Oprah/Governator card. He draws two cards. Both cards call for discarding two cards if played. Since there aren't enough cards available to really play either card, yet one must be played, what happens?

It occurs to me that each deck may only have one "discard two" card, so this may be moot. But if it isn't, the rules lawyer in me says that you can play either of these cards, but if you don't pay the associated fee, its effect doesn't kick in. So you just played a card that does nothing. Which is exactly what you must do in this case.

3. A player has a Demographic: Jewish Conservatives card in-hand, but FL and NJ have both been won. Can he play this card?

Yes, with no effect.
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Jason Matthews
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1. From the rules, page 7

"Winning a state (along with the accompanying steps described below) occurs immediately when a player achieves the necessary support, before rolling the die for Going Negative. If multiple states are won simultaneously, each is resolved one at a time as described below, in the order desired by the current player."

Which is to say, you resolve the state (including bringing out a new one and the ZNN breaking news event) and THEN, you roll the Going Negative die.

2. OK, I will admit to being too lazy to go down to the basement, to grab a copy of the game and confirm whether or not this scenario is actually possible. However, I do agree with your resolution. From the rules, page 7

"Some cards indicate that a player may discard additional cards from their hand to gain some effect. These cards may not be played without discarding the required number of cards. Of course,if a card indicates that a player may discard any number of cards, zero is a legal choice."

So, we will treat your card play of Oprah as per question 3.

3. From the rules, page 6

"Similarly, a Campaign Strategy card may be played even though it has no effect, in order to remove the card from your hand and progress the turn."

So, yes, you can play a demographic card for no effect to get it out of your hand.
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Tim P.
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Jason, himself, beat me to the answers, although q 2. is not directly covered by the rules, thanks for the clarification.

1. The 'Going Negative' die roll is at the end of the players turn, (see bottom of page 6).

2. See Jason's answer. This particular scenario is not covered in the rules, although page 6 does mention this type of card.

A similar scenario and plausible would if the 'Oprah/Governator' is played, leaving the player with no cards in their hand.
Two cards are drawn, one of which is 'discard 2 cards to get a benefit' and another card.
The player really wants to keep the second card, so the 'discard 2 cards to play' card can be discarded (with it's effect not being triggered) to satisfy the 'Oprah/Governator' cards requirements.

3. See Jason's answer, i.e. this one is covered on page 6.
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Christian Leonhard
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Yeah, that's a good catch on number 2. Another scenario for demonstrating the problem is if we play The Audacity of Hope to discard the only remaining card in our hand and draw a "discard 2" card, which we must then play immediately per Audacity.

The paradox here is that the rules state that such cards cannot be played without discarding the required number of cards, yet a card is instructing us to do just that. In any conflict between a card instruction and a normal rule, however, cards always trump rules, so we must play the card. As for how to resolve the card, both the rules and the card agree that 2 cards must be discarded to get the effect, so in this situation we would be forced to play it for no effect.

The situation is the same in a "draw 2, play 1" scenario where we're forced to play one of two cards, both of which are of the "discard 2" variety: if we don't have the necessary discards for either of them, we must play one without effect.

Contrast this with an identical scenario, only this time we draw a "discard 2" and a "discard X" card. In this case, the "discard X" card is a legal play, since zero discards is explicitly allowed in the rules, while the "discard 2" is still prohibited by the rules (which state that we cannot play such a card without the necessary discards). In this case, we're not forced to violate a rule; we simply make the one legal play available to us.

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Fred Beukema
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Thanks to all for the clarification and discussion! My wife and I have really enjoyed the game so far (even when we get trounced) -- I suspect it will become a dinnertime staple.
 
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H Chapman
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cleonhard wrote:
The situation is the same in a "draw 2, play 1" scenario where we're forced to play one of two cards, both of which are of the "discard 2" variety: if we don't have the necessary discards for either of them, we must play one without effect.

Contrast this with an identical scenario, only this time we draw a "discard 2" and a "discard X" card. In this case, the "discard X" card is a legal play, since zero discards is explicitly allowed in the rules, while the "discard 2" is still prohibited by the rules (which state that we cannot play such a card without the necessary discards). In this case, we're not forced to violate a rule; we simply make the one legal play available to us.



So, to recap -- if we "draw 2, play 1"

Case 1: if neither card is legal to play, I still must play one of them (without effect).
Case 2: if at least one card is legal to play, I must make a legal play.

however.... for Case 1:

in order to play a card that violates the rules,
must I prove that the other card also violates the rules by showing it to my opponent?
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