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Campaign Manager 2008» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Rahm, what is best in life? rss

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Brian Bankler
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Here's a simple strategy question ....

Right now, what's your "No questions asked, draft it" card (while gnashing your teeth about the 2nd best card you have to throw away). If you are so enlightened that you'd say, "It depends" then I respect your dedication to the Way, but lets assume it's the first set of three, so you have no other cards in your deck yet.

Bonus points if you understand the title. (None for Jason and Christian, who should know this like Mother's Milk).

Right now (after three games), I'd like to think mine is the "Gain one influence in the minority issue and move the state position one towards the minority." But I'll admit that "Draw 3 cards" would beat it.
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Mark Bigney
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The mere title of this post makes me want to buy the game.
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Jack Defevers
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Thumb for the title.
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Max Jamelli
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I would say the draw 3 cards is clutch - but my favorite card so far has been the discard two cards for two support. I won a couple states using that card. Probably not optimal, but depending on what is on the board - (Ohio, Colorado, Iowa, Nevada for example) go get that big electoral state if you're close.
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Jesse Dean
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For a general purpose "good stuff" deck rather than a particularly thematic deck I would say that my ranking is:
1) Draw Three
2) Draw Two, Play One
3) One Influence Plus Move One Towards the Minority Issue/Move One Towards The Candidate's Issue (i.e. Economy for Obama Defense for McCain)
4) Place Two Influence + Discard Two Cards
5) The Candidate's Best Special Cards (McCain: The Game Changer, and Discard One to grab one card from the discard; Obama: Remove From Game to Force Opponent to Remove Card Just Played From Game)
6) Move Track 2 Spaces Towards Minority Issue

Beyond that it is pretty situational. I like to have at least one or two broadly useful demographic cards, particularly if they also hit one of the big three states. Making sure you have plenty of cards to place influence or move the issues track is important, but if you focus on the cards I listed above you can usually deal with the issues track with no problem.


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Joshua Hammack
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I think Draw Three is my winner. I didn't play with it until a couple of games in. Now I can't imagine it without.
 
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Matthew M
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I'm surprised how many people are naming the "Draw 3" card.

You have to play a card (-1) instead of drawing a card (-1) to gain 3 cards (+3) - the net of the play is one extra card.

Unless I've got a lot of cards that trigger off of discarding, the Draw 3 card is an easy pass for me.


For me, Oprah/Arnold are the winners.

-MMM
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Bruce Miller
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We don't have time for on-the-job training.

Discard two cards to gain two points in Defense.


Allows players to win just introduced mid-level states without the Obama player interfering.
 
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Eric Phillips
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Jesse Dean
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The Draw Three card is useful because it reduces the number of times that you take a draw action. By having it in your hand you can avoid the tempo loss of taking the draw action twice. Instead you can simply play this card and avoid having to take the draw action twice.

Oprah/Arnold are really good too though.
 
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Matthew M
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doubtofbuddha wrote:
The Draw Three card is useful because it reduces the number of times that you take a draw action. By having it in your hand you can avoid the tempo loss of taking the draw action twice. Instead you can simply play this card and avoid having to take the draw action twice.


You aren't saving two draw actions. You are saving only one. The card replaces itself AND replaces the draw-a-card action you could have taken instead of playing it. Your net gain is saving on one draw action and effectively playing with a 14 card deck.

-MMM
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Jesse Dean
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Sorry, you are correct. You are saving only one action.

However, that still seems pretty equivalent to ophah/arnold which replace themselves, let you draw one, and let you play one. Stil a savings of one action, but you are a bit constrained in that you are forced to play one of the two cards drawn.
 
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Matthew M
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I will admit that I am biased towards playing cards that do things to impact states right now. Drawing 3 cards is good for the future. But I've lost plenty of states because I needed to play something immediately to stop my opponent from winning it on his next turn.

That's why I like cards that add support + draw a card a lot. And Oprah/Arnold effectively adds + draw a card to the card that you play.

But as I said, in certain decks the +3 cards is great - specifically when I'm playing Going-Negative heavy decks, as most of those cards are fueled by discards.

-MMM
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Alex Rockwell
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Octavian wrote:
doubtofbuddha wrote:
The Draw Three card is useful because it reduces the number of times that you take a draw action. By having it in your hand you can avoid the tempo loss of taking the draw action twice. Instead you can simply play this card and avoid having to take the draw action twice.


You aren't saving two draw actions. You are saving only one. The card replaces itself AND replaces the draw-a-card action you could have taken instead of playing it. Your net gain is saving on one draw action and effectively playing with a 14 card deck.

-MMM


Yes. But just the fact that it is essentially generating a free draw for you every cycle through the deck, is a huge efficiency gain.

The cost to play the card is:
1 Draw, 1 Play - 2 Actions.
The gain is 3 draws - 3 Actions.


Similarly Oprah.Arnold provide the same net gain, though in the form of an Action rather than a Draw. Basically, the Fundraiser is better if you wanted to draw a card, and Oprahnold is better if you wanted to play a card.

But both are highly efficient and should be taken over everything. Nothing else generates free efficiency for you the way these do.


A 'support + draw 1' card essentially ends up converting 1 action into one effect (+1 support).
Most other cards convert 2 actions into 2 effects.
Fundraising cards convert 2 actions into 3 effects! They are on a higher level of efficiency.




On another related note, I am finding the Draw3 card to be better in general than Oprah/Arnold. The reason is that sometimes you dont draw anything off Oprahnold that you currently want to play,and then the gain is wasted. WIth the Draw3 card, you can always save it for later.

I find this more important than the tempo difference. Draw3 makes sure you dont get into the position where you need a tmepo card and dont have one.
 
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Brian Bankler
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And let us not forget that the draw 3/ Oprah/Arnold cards let you go above the 5 card max, which sometimes lets you pause instead of spend a tempo.

 
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You can't handle the truth?
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DscGlfr wrote:
Octavian wrote:
doubtofbuddha wrote:
The Draw Three card is useful because it reduces the number of times that you take a draw action. By having it in your hand you can avoid the tempo loss of taking the draw action twice. Instead you can simply play this card and avoid having to take the draw action twice.


You aren't saving two draw actions. You are saving only one. The card replaces itself AND replaces the draw-a-card action you could have taken instead of playing it. Your net gain is saving on one draw action and effectively playing with a 14 card deck.

-MMM


I disagree. I understand one of the cards replaces the Draw 3 Card and another represents the normal draw action, but the number of saved actions is a matter of perspective. It would normally take 3 actions to acquire the third card you get with the Draw 3 Card. The Draw 3 Card gets you the card in 1 action. Thus, you saved 2 actions.


I think it helps to look at it this way.

Case A: You have 1 card in hand, the draw 3 card. After you play it this turn, you now have 3 cards in your hand.

Case B: You have 1 card in hand, and this turn you draw a card. You now have 2 cards in hand.

I think it's easy to see that you with 1 extra action, you would be at 3 cards, just like the draw 3 card.

Of course, I think that 1 action is a huge deal, and it is usually an amlost draft for me.
 
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Christian Leonhard
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DscGlfr wrote:
crambaza wrote:
I think it helps to look at it this way.

Case A: You have 1 card in hand, the draw 3 card. After you play it this turn, you now have 3 cards in your hand.

Case B: You have 1 card in hand, and this turn you draw a card. You now have 2 cards in hand.

I think it's easy to see that you with 1 extra action, you would be at 3 cards, just like the draw 3 card.

Of course, I think that 1 action is a huge deal, and it is usually an amlost draft for me.


Yes, but Case A let's you look at 4 cards. Case B only let's you look at 3 cards.

But that 4th card is the draw 3 card... does having looked at that really provide any added value, considering that you've already played it?
 
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Christian Leonhard
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DscGlfr wrote:
cleonhard wrote:
But that 4th card is the draw 3 card... does having looked at that really provide any added value, considering that you've already played it?


No. The 4th card is the 3rd card provided by the draw 3 card.

If the Draw 3 Card is A:

Case A - You see cards A B C D

Case B - You see cards A B C

So Case B costs an additional action and you don't get to see card D.

Well, yes, I meant the 4th card in addition to the 3 you get to see in Case B; I didn't mean it was literally the 4th card you drew. The fact remains that one of the 4 cards you're seeing is the draw 3 card, which you then proceed to play, so at the end of it you still end up with 3 additional cards in your hand, all of which you've seen, exactly as in Case B. The fact that you also got to see the Draw 3 card doesn't confer any extra advantage.
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Christian Leonhard
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DscGlfr wrote:
The extra advantage afforded by the Draw 3 Card is Card D. In order to see Card D in Case B, you'd need to spend a second additional action. Otherwise Case B has only seen 2 cards in addition to the Draw 3 Card.

Case B didn't involve having a draw 3 card; Case B was demonstrating that if you had 1 card in hand which was not a draw 3, it would take you 2 more actions to end up with 3 unplayed cards in your hand. This is in contrast to Case A, which demonstrated that if you had 1 card in hand which was a draw 3, it would take you 1 more action to end up with 3 unplayed cards in your hand (i.e., by playing the draw 3). Therefore, the advantage conferred by the draw 3 card is gaining 3 cards in one fewer action than would otherwise be required to do so.
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