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Last Train to Wensleydale» Forums » General

Subject: Last Train To Wensleydale vs Brass rss

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Hugh Cowan
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Hello,

I was given "Railways of the World" for Christmas which I have played a number of times and quite like.

This was the first time that I have played a Martin Wallace game, and so I thought that I would look at what other games he has produced.

After reading different reviews and such, and I have narrowed it down to either "Brass" or "Last Train To Wensleydale", but I am undecided as to which one to get.

My wife likes to play games, but is not a specific "train game" fan, unlike myself, so I am wondering if this would feel too much like "Railways of the World".

Also, does anyone know why such a limited number of copies were produced for this game?

For instance, Brass which was released in 2007, I have had no trouble locating copies for, but this game, which was released in 2009 (two years later), is much more difficult.

This is part of the reason that I am looking at this game now, rather than later -- had it not had such a limited run I would have probably just got Brass for now as something different, and then looked at this one later.

Thanks
 
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Łukasz
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This may be just a matter of personal taste, but I have now >120 plays of Brass under my belt and haven't - even slightly - got bored with it. I've played Last Train two or three times and am not that positive that I would force myself to play this game that many times. Brass is just more balanced and deeper game, in every aspect. LTtW is a light auction game, with some track laying and loss managing. Definitely worth playing couple of times but not of quality of Brass, that's for sure.

On the other hand, I am not really sure whether these two can be compared as they're quite different in terms of complexity and length of gameplay... Maybe you should get two? ninja
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Ville
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Last Train to Wensleydale is part of the Treefrog line. Marting Wallace has designed all games in Treefrog line and there's very limited number of copies produced. Every game is numbered and they have signature of Martin Wallace (?). I believe at least some of them have been or are going the be reprinted by some larger company, so there's a possibility that Last Train To Wensleydale is going to get reprinted too.

I believe LTTW and RRotW are very different kind of games.
 
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Seth
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Archvile wrote:
Last Train to Wensleydale is part of the Treefrog line. Marting Wallace has designed all games in Treefrog line and there's very limited number of copies produced. Every game is numbered and they have signature of Martin Wallace (?).


I didn't think too highly of LttW, but since I haven't played RRotW I won't make a direct comparison. I will however add my voice to the general statement that Brass is great fun.


Edit: Additional comment, there's no real comparison between these games as they have very little in common. I'm firmly of the opinion that Brass is a great game and that LttW is a mediocre but playable game. With this as my opinion I won't try to argue one game over the other, I just don't care much for the way LttW plays but coming from a train-game (pick up and deliver) background it might be a good match for the OP.
 
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Kevin Whitmore
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cylonathalf wrote:
About this, the first edition (from warfrog) of Brass was also released in a limited (and yes, numbered and signed) print run.


Is this true? Brass is a "Warfrog" game, while Last Train to Wensleydale is a "Treefrog" game. I was under the impression the 1500 limted editon approach (and signatures) began with the Treefrog line.
 
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Steffan O'Sullivan
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Brass is a deeper, heavier game, for sure, and I'll agree it has a higher replay value. With that said, Wensleydale is still a fine game I won't play as often as Brass, but I hope to play for as many years - just less frequently.
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Rick Vinyard
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I would highly recommend Brass.

I know you've already narrowed your list down this time, but I would also recommend you take a look at Conquest of the Empire next time. It's still on closeout for $20-$25 at many places.

You might also be interested in this recent interview:
http://www.boardgamenews.com/index.php/boardgamenews/comment...

The Treefrog 2010 series is looking pretty interesting with a remake of Brass titled Age of Industry, London (history of the City from the Great Fire to 1900) and a wargame on the French & Indian War.

Personally, I'm also looking forward to Mayfair's printing of Automobile.
 
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Darrell Hanning
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It should be easier to get a "light" gamer into LTtW, but Brass offers much more replay value, IMO.
 
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Jim Cote
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I can't explain why, but when I play Brass, I feel like I'm a non-gamer being forced to play games. I don't feel invested in my play, and I don't care about the actions I take. I understand that it takes skill to play, and that there are meaningful decisions, but it just feels like a pointless activity. It gives me the same vibe as Reef Encounter.
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David Hoffman
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Brass, definitely Brass. LttW is a great game, to be sure, but you will (a) have to pay a premium to track down a copy, and (b) will more than likely get more mileage out of Brass.

And really, Brass is NOT a terribly hard game to learn and to play. There are some relatively simple concepts to master and then away you go.

Also, there's a great and fun 2-player variant available for Brass right here on the Geek. Essentially, you close down the bottom quarter of the map, remove some cards, adjust (slightly) the cash you start with, and then go.

The only complaint I have about Brass is I don't get to play it enough. I love playing Wenslydale, too, but even with that, I'd take Brass, given a choice.
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Daniel Corban
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Last Train to Wensleydale is definitely one of Wallace's better games. However, it is not in the same league as Brass. Despite Wallace's not-so-fond memories for the development and publishing of Brass, it is on my list as one the best games ever made.
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Snooze Fest
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Last Train!

I've played Brass many times, but mostly becasue it's available online (play by web). It is, perhaps, the "better" game. Depends what you're looking for, I suppose. In its favor, Last Train is
- a train game
- easier to learn. Maybe
- shorter play time

The main reason not to get Brass: Age of Industry is coming soon; you may as well wait and get that instead, and buy Train while you can.
 
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Seth
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Kevin_Whitmore wrote:

Is this true? Brass is a "Warfrog" game, while Last Train to Wensleydale is a "Treefrog" game. I was under the impression the 1500 limted editon approach (and signatures) began with the Treefrog line.


Good catch. I'm going to retract the part of my statement that I'm uncertain about. Subsequent editions/printings of brass were published by other companies (with somewhat inferior parts, but that's a tale for another thread). I've seen a few autographed copies of brass but it's quite possible that this was not a standard feature of direct ordering from MWs website.

Of course, the statement about LttW is correct as that is actually a Treefrog line product. (This doesn't make up for the game's shortcomings though ... I know there are LttW fans out there, suffice it to say that I am not one of them).
 
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Hugh Cowan
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Thanks to everyone for their replies and comments. In regards to the difference between the TreeFrog limited print-runs and reprints from other companies, does anyone know much about the difference in quality of components.

I know it's hard to tell for a re-print that doesn't currently exist, but I am wondering in general if the extra cost for the limited versions is mostly because they are signed, numbered, and limited, or it is because the quality of components supplied is much greater?

Thanks again.
 
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Hugh Cowan
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snoozefest wrote:
Last Train!

The main reason not to get Brass: Age of Industry is coming soon; you may as well wait and get that instead, and buy Train while you can.


Yes, I had noticed this (so much for coming up with simple obvious answers to sway decisions).

Again, not having had the game released yet, and realizing that this really belongs in the Brass forum (although there seems to be a fair number of Brass players responding), does the game of Brass need to be simplified?

I have read the general comments about playing in 1/2 the time, is this something that was a bad thing?

While my wife isn't a huge *Train* game fan, we do play a variety of game that differ in complexity and length -- we have played Agricola, Dominion, Pandemic, Through the Ages, Settlers, etc... so I don't mind having a game that is more complex or longer in length as it just gives us another option when choosing.

I am just not sure of whether "Age of Industry" would be a simplified version of Brass to appeal to a larger audience, or if it's because it would actually play better.

 
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Seth
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The available descriptions of Age of Industry make almost me want to ignore its release. I'll probably give it a shot though. IIRC there's an active thread over in the brass forum about it (or was it in the general wallace forum?). My experience is that once people know the basics/rules game time cuts down to under 2 hours. I don't see how they can cut the playing time down to under an hour in a way that doesn't water down the decision-making. If AoI isn't vulnerable to AP prone players lengthening the game time what does that say about the game?

My suspicions are that the active comparison to brass will be a bit of a misnomer for this one. (Hopefully!) That it will be a wallace game with a bit of brass-flavoring where the `card-driven mechanic' has been reworked.

About Brass: I suggest reading over the rules a few times

http://www.warfroggames.com/brass.html

(available in English, French, and German). Then you could try out the online implementation here:

http://wargamessoc.union.shef.ac.uk/brass/index.php

As regards component quality and reprints. My experience is that the difference in quality doesn't detract from play. Your experience may vary. I have a gamer buddy that absolutely hates the linen finish used in subsequent versions of brass. I doubt that Last Train reprints will be much different (unless they cheap out and don't use wooden bits). The only other difference would be artwork changes, take Tinners' Trail for example. (Don't get me started on the 2nd edition Tinners' art). Although, come to think of it, changing the board art for LttW could only be an improvement.
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Rick Vinyard
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hcowan wrote:
I know it's hard to tell for a re-print that doesn't currently exist, but I am wondering in general if the extra cost for the limited versions is mostly because they are signed, numbered, and limited, or it is because the quality of components supplied is much greater?


I think it is largely availability more than anything else. It's not a certainty that any of the particular Treefrog games will be picked up by another publisher the way Automobile, God's Playground, Tinners' Trail and Steel Driver have.
 
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Hugh Cowan
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cylonathalf wrote:

About Brass: I suggest reading over the rules a few times

http://www.warfroggames.com/brass.html

(available in English, French, and German). Then you could try out the online implementation here:

http://wargamessoc.union.shef.ac.uk/brass/index.php


Thanks for the information / suggestion & links. I didn't know that there was an on-line version of the game. It certainly is a good way to try it out.

Hugh
 
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Seth
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Of course, in the last day the hosting seems to have changed. If you follow that link you'll be referred to:

http://brass.orderofthehammer.com

This is essentially pbem, but there's a rather nice abstract representation of the game state. Be advised that games are not played in real time (well, mostly, some games do move at a fairly good clip and there's no reason you couldn't arrange to play one in close to real time if you knew the players in real life).
 
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Daniel Corban
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I like the column that says "Friendly?"

I'm not even sure what the difference between "friendly" and "competitive" Brass games would be. Is it intended to be "newbies" vs "veterans"? "People who couldn't care less if they win" vs "people who aren't wasting your time"?
 
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dcorban wrote:
I like the column that says "Friendly?"

I'm not even sure what the difference between "friendly" and "competitive" Brass games would be. Is it intended to be "newbies" vs "veterans"? "People who couldn't care less if they win" vs "people who aren't wasting your time"?

That website has a ranking system that is generated after a player logs a certain number of "non-friendly" games. So, players who want to just play and not have it count towards their ranking will just choose to play a friendly game. If a player wants to play competetively and have the result reflected in his/her ranking, then he/she will play a non-friendly game.

Most newbies will likely start out playing friendly games, but a veteran might not always choose to play non-friendly games.
 
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