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Subject: All the questions I'll ever need to ask about this great game.... rss

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Chris Stimpson
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.... for now.

Previous post refers.

As I played through those first two games, I noted them all down. Some became epiphanically obvious as play progressed, while others revealed themselves to me as I ploughed diligently through the 95 entries on the rules section of this forum.

What I've collected below are those still unresolved, if you gentlemen wouldn't mind.


1. I think I figured out that you can pass through (or more accurately, pass by) an area without having to stop because it's an enemy fortress. Can't you tell I own Kingmaker? In that game you get stopped on the road if you reach a town you don't own (and of course have to pay twice the rent if the owner has all three of that color...) Oh, I get it - that's why you call them AREAS and not TOWNS! This would also, I guess, explain how Leven can enter the map at Carlisle, a royalist fort. Orl Korrect so far?

2. I can't for the life of me figure out why so many areas that are NOT fortresses are designated as ports. The only significance of ports that I can find is that naval status will affect bombardment of port-fortresses. (Portresses?) Did I miss something?

3. Is there any value in keeping just one brigade with a LN? Seems to me it doesn't help the defence, since a besieging army has to have at least one brigade anyway, even if the LN has no brigades, but if the LN had two brigades it would force the besieger to do the same. Perhaps just for some strength to lend a relieving force?

4. Keeping the Command Displays hidden or not: I had assumed you hide them from the opponent, but then rule 6.3 talks of placing an ops card "face-up" for recruitment. Why face-up if t'other fellah can't see the display? Or does rule 16.0 Fog of War effectively mean you can see his display, but brigades are turned to the anonymous side?

5. The Royalist player plays 'The King abandons the fish hooks' BEFORE the Parliament player is able to play the 'Army of the Sodden Leaves and Oven Aunt' mandatory card. In this case, can the Parliament player discard the now-useless card as a limited 1 Ops card?

6. Rule 5.1 talks of 'neutral areas', but everywhere else the phrase 'open areas' is used. I assume these are one and the same?

7. Rule 7.1.4, siege trains "must be placed in a friendly fortress". Can this be an active LN?

8. Rule 9.7.3, interception. (The interceptor gets into the area first). So if an army is moving toward one of its own fortresses, and is successfully intercepted, the interception prevents it from getting into the fortress?

9. Rule 10.1, evasion and dispersal: At what point do you get the see the full enemy strength? a) Before the evasion decision or b) after the evasion decision but before the dispersal decision?

10. Rule 11.1, placing PC markers in open areas in campaign phase: can these areas be enemy-occupied?

11. Rule 12.2, desertion categories, case 3 (armies in an area adjacent to.. an enemy army that is not masked or besieged): would this apply to an army in a fortress? In other words, if you have an army in a fortress one area away from an enemy army, would it qualify for desertion?

12. Rule 14.2, besieging: despite the coverage in the rules forum, I'm still having trouble with "if all brigades of a garrison are removed from a besieged fortress, the fortress surrenders immediately." As the designer suggested, all fortresses have some kind of intrinsic garrison, consisting of the governor and townspeople, local recruits, etc. You can bolster that with an actual brigade or brigades to force the besiegers to increase their strength. If those brigades are removed through desertion, or through sallying out and being defeated, the rule indicates that the fortress surrenders. But what happened to those townsfolk/defenders who presumably stayed inside to watch the scrap?

13. Assaults and Immediate Assaults (14.5): "A bombarding army can elect to assault a fortress for free after a bombardment activation." Meaning a) you activate for bombardment, but instead of firing Mons Meg at the walls you go through the assault procedure; b) you activate for bombardment, roll for bombardment (14.3), and THEN get on with the assault in the same activation. I would have thought a), since you can 'immediate assault' with an accumulated bombardment value of 0.

14. Rule 14.6, battles in siege areas:
1) If you are masking, not besieging, a fortress, and you are attacked, can the garrison come out and join in the fight?
2) If you successfully relieve a siege by defeating the besieger, can you end your move in the fortress?

15. Sir John Meldrum still makes no sense to me. Supposing you make your free bombardment against a LN nowhere near your own forces; either you don't reach the surrender value in one roll, in which case the bombardment value is lost, or you do reach it, in which case the fortress surrenders.... but to whom? Isn't this card only useful if you happen to be already besieging a LN?
 
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Charles Vasey
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cstimpson wrote:


1. I think I figured out that you can pass through (or more accurately, pass by) an area without having to stop because it's an enemy fortress. Can't you tell I own Kingmaker? In that game you get stopped on the road if you reach a town you don't own (and of course have to pay twice the rent if the owner has all three of that color...) Oh, I get it - that's why you call them AREAS and not TOWNS! This would also, I guess, explain how Leven can enter the map at Carlisle, a royalist fort. Orl Korrect so far?


I haven't played Kingmaker in a decade so cannot comment, but Rule 9.4 notes "Movement of a General is temporarily halted on entering an Area containing enemy Brigades." so Fortresses on their own have no effect.



cstimpson wrote:
2. I can't for the life of me figure out why so many areas that are NOT fortresses are designated as ports. The only significance of ports that I can find is that naval status will affect bombardment of port-fortresses. (Portresses?) Did I miss something?


I'm having difficulty understanding how this affects play. Why would you care? But from memory the Irish need them and so does the Queen. They also are included for some further rule ideas.


cstimpson wrote:
3. Is there any value in keeping just one brigade with a LN? Seems to me it doesn't help the defence, since a besieging army has to have at least one brigade anyway, even if the LN has no brigades, but if the LN had two brigades it would force the besieger to do the same. Perhaps just for some strength to lend a relieving force?


I can do rule questions but I'm the last person you should ask strategy questions. I rarely keep garrisons anywhere.


cstimpson wrote:
4. Keeping the Command Displays hidden or not: I had assumed you hide them from the opponent, but then rule 6.3 talks of placing an ops card "face-up" for recruitment. Why face-up if t'other fellah can't see the display? Or does rule 16.0 Fog of War effectively mean you can see his display, but brigades are turned to the anonymous side?


I think I may be missing a point here. You can see his display, you can see the top counter or leader, and you can see how many of them there are but you cannot examine them. Does that help? Rule 16 talks about limits on examining not hiding. Give it another read and see if it works.

cstimpson wrote:
5. The Royalist player plays 'The King abandons the fish hooks' BEFORE the Parliament player is able to play the 'Army of the Sodden Leaves and Oven Aunt' mandatory card. In this case, can the Parliament player discard the now-useless card as a limited 1 Ops card?


No, there is no such provision for mandatory cards

cstimpson wrote:
6. Rule 5.1 talks of 'neutral areas', but everywhere else the phrase 'open areas' is used. I assume these are one and the same?


I think so.

cstimpson wrote:
7. Rule 7.1.4, siege trains "must be placed in a friendly fortress". Can this be an active LN?


no.

cstimpson wrote:
8. Rule 9.7.3, interception. (The interceptor gets into the area first). So if an army is moving toward one of its own fortresses, and is successfully intercepted, the interception prevents it from getting into the fortress?


Yes.

cstimpson wrote:
9. Rule 10.1, evasion and dispersal: At what point do you get the see the full enemy strength? a) Before the evasion decision or b) after the evasion decision but before the dispersal decision?


Before dispersal.

cstimpson wrote:
10. Rule 11.1, placing PC markers in open areas in campaign phase: can these areas be enemy-occupied?


Yes, the rules note that neutral or open status consists of no Political marker. Armies/Brigades do not come into it.

cstimpson wrote:
11. Rule 12.2, desertion categories, case 3 (armies in an area adjacent to.. an enemy army that is not masked or besieged): would this apply to an army in a fortress? In other words, if you have an army in a fortress one area away from an enemy army, would it qualify for desertion?


The rule is as stated, fortresses do not affect it.

cstimpson wrote:
12. Rule 14.2, besieging: despite the coverage in the rules forum, I'm still having trouble with "if all brigades of a garrison are removed from a besieged fortress, the fortress surrenders immediately." As the designer suggested, all fortresses have some kind of intrinsic garrison, consisting of the governor and townspeople, local recruits, etc. You can bolster that with an actual brigade or brigades to force the besiegers to increase their strength. If those brigades are removed through desertion, or through sallying out and being defeated, the rule indicates that the fortress surrenders. But what happened to those townsfolk/defenders who presumably stayed inside to watch the scrap?


The military governor opened the gates and surrendered the fort and they all pretended they were supporters of the other side. I take it this isn't a rules question but an "I don't agree" statement? If so then you can of course alter the rule as you wish.

cstimpson wrote:
13. Assaults and Immediate Assaults (14.5): "A bombarding army can elect to assault a fortress for free after a bombardment activation." Meaning a) you activate for bombardment, but instead of firing Mons Meg at the walls you go through the assault procedure; b) you activate for bombardment, roll for bombardment (14.3), and THEN get on with the assault in the same activation. I would have thought a), since you can 'immediate assault' with an accumulated bombardment value of 0.


(b)


cstimpson wrote:
14. Rule 14.6, battles in siege areas:
1) If you are masking, not besieging, a fortress, and you are attacked, can the garrison come out and join in the fight?
2) If you successfully relieve a siege by defeating the besieger, can you end your move in the fortress?


I think (1) would need you to be able to combine the friendly forces for that to happen. (2) depends on subordinartion and fortress capacity.


cstimpson wrote:
15. Sir John Meldrum still makes no sense to me. Supposing you make your free bombardment against a LN nowhere near your own forces; either you don't reach the surrender value in one roll, in which case the bombardment value is lost, or you do reach it, in which case the fortress surrenders.... but to whom? Isn't this card only useful if you happen to be already besieging a LN?
[/q]

It surrenders to Sir John Meldrum (does this matter?), and becomes Parliamentarian controlled. No, it can be a useful one shot trouser-browner. The chance is one-in-six but victory is all the sweeter.
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Chris Stimpson
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Quote:

Quote:

2. I can't for the life of me figure out why so many areas that are NOT fortresses are designated as ports. The only significance of ports that I can find is that naval status will affect bombardment of port-fortresses. (Portresses?) Did I miss something?


I'm having difficulty understanding how this affects play. Why would you care? But from memory the Irish need them and so does the Queen. They also are included for some further rule ideas.



That's it. The Irish haven't come into a game for me yet - the Godly drew the Cessation both times - so I didn't know the rule.

Quote:
Quote:
Keeping the Command Displays hidden or not: I had assumed you hide them from the opponent, but then rule 6.3 talks of placing an ops card "face-up" for recruitment. Why face-up if t'other fellah can't see the display? Or does rule 16.0 Fog of War effectively mean you can see his display, but brigades are turned to the anonymous side?


I think I may be missing a point here. You can see his display, you can see the top counter or leader, and you can see how many of them there are but you cannot examine them. Does that help? Rule 16 talks about limits on examining not hiding. Give it another read and see if it works.


It's just that an earlier poster had built cardboard 'masks' to hide his displays and/or cards from his opponent. Your explanation works for me - thanks.
 
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Charles Vasey
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At various stages the game had all sorts of stuff attached, and then removed, I guess the Lorrainers need the ports as well.

I'd forgotten the cardboard masks; I think that going too far for the ECW, it was afterall a war between cousins.
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Andy Daglish
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cstimpson wrote:
Is there any value in keeping just one brigade with a LN? Seems to me it doesn't help the defence, since a besieging army has to have at least one brigade anyway, even if the LN has no brigades, but if the LN had two brigades it would force the besieger to do the same. Perhaps just for some strength to lend a relieving force?


yes; they can hold four brigades and in this way can turn your little army moving four spaces per card into a big one, just before it fights. Clearly there is scope for putting brigades with Massey for Essex to pick up as he moves into this sensitive locale from London, given his leadership capacity, and because the deficit of safe & useful places to put Parliamentary recruits means there is nowhere else to put them.

Another point is whether you need any brigades to maintain siege points on LNs. Apparently not, unless there is a garrison. LN siege points are more valuable as they are harder to amass, so are threatened to some extent by a garrison.

 
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Charles Vasey
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Movement rates are determined by the largest size the Army has, so picking up lots of Brigades will slow you down. You'd need to move, bulk up, then move next activation.

9.2 "As the Army moves the number of Brigades may increase resulting in a decrease in available Movement Points. At any time following an increase or decrease in Army size where the number of Movement Points spent equals or exceeds the available number at that instant, then movement ceases immediately."

Siege Markers require Armies, so you will need Brigades.
 
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