Stefan Daniels
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Actually, I'm okay with the whole "how to calculate tax chips and the like" but it's the "tax points" as well as the "Credit Multiplier" that I'm confused about.

The way I read it:

Add up all the controlled factories (factories that do NOT have a hostile army on their province) x 2 plus add up all the tax chips x 1. This will give you your available Tax Points. Say you're at 8 right now and then you now have 6. You move the Tax Point pawn down to 6 and then move the Credit Point pawn forward by how many points? 6? Say Italy is currently at 5... it would move to 11 on the Credit Track?

Since I didn't 'gain' anything in the Tax Point (8 to 6) I, as an investor, receive NO bonus from the bank? If however, I had an 11 on this Taxation turn would I then receive 3 Million from the bank?

At this point I then minus any armies and navies x 1 from the total Tax Amount and this will give me my final amount that I take from the bank and place in that respective country's vault?

Do I have any of this right? What, if anything do I have wrong?

Investor: my group plays with the Investor Card for now so my only question is: as an Investor who DOES NOT have the Investor Card but I choose to land directly on the Investor Option, I CANNOT invest in any country? I understand that the person WITH the Investor Card gets to do this as well as anyone who DOES NOT currently have majority control in any country. Is this right?

Niggly Point: I can place money AT ANY TIME in any country that I hold majority? Or can I do this with any country that I hold a bond in?

Thanks for all your time.
 
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Richard Young
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Looks to me like you have it all about right, except for your "niggly point," which I'm not sure about...
 
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lindelos wrote:

Niggly Point: I can place money AT ANY TIME in any country that I hold majority? Or can I do this with any country that I hold a bond in?

I don't remember the exact wording of the rules, but it basically boils down to this: you can supplement any payment from the treasury of a country you own with your own money. This applies to Factory (optional), Import (optional), and Investor (required). When taking the Factory/Import actions, you can pay out of your own pocket instead of the treasury, or pay a portion from your stash. If there isn't enough money in the country to Investor, you are required to pay the difference yourself.

Putting money in at any other time would have no effect until one of the above actions is taken.
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David Bohnenberger
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lindelos wrote:
Actually, I'm okay with the whole "how to calculate tax chips and the like" but it's the "tax points" as well as the "Credit Multiplier" that I'm confused about.

The way I read it:

Add up all the controlled factories (factories that do NOT have a hostile army on their province) x 2 plus add up all the tax chips x 1. This will give you your available Tax Points. Say you're at 8 right now and then you now have 6. You move the Tax Point pawn down to 6 and then move the Credit Point pawn forward by how many points? 6? Say Italy is currently at 5... it would move to 11 on the Credit Track?


yep

Quote:
Since I didn't 'gain' anything in the Tax Point (8 to 6) I, as an investor, receive NO bonus from the bank? If however, I had an 11 on this Taxation turn would I then receive 3 Million from the bank?


yep

Quote:
At this point I then minus any armies and navies x 1 from the total Tax Amount and this will give me my final amount that I take from the bank and place in that respective country's vault?

Do I have any of this right? What, if anything do I have wrong?


all right!


Quote:
Investor: my group plays with the Investor Card for now so my only question is: as an Investor who DOES NOT have the Investor Card but I choose to land directly on the Investor Option, I CANNOT invest in any country? I understand that the person WITH the Investor Card gets to do this as well as anyone who DOES NOT currently have majority control in any country. Is this right?


Quote:
Niggly Point: I can place money AT ANY TIME in any country that I hold majority? Or can I do this with any country that I hold a bond in



I'm fairly sure you can donate money to any nation you want, but I don't think you'll see this happen much. Maybe when you really really want to buy a factory and you're a dollar short, that's about the only time I've ever seen it happen.
 
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Tim Schwarz
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lindelos wrote:
Actually, I'm okay with the whole "how to calculate tax chips and the like" but it's the "tax points" as well as the "Credit Multiplier" that I'm confused about.

The way I read it:

Add up all the controlled factories (factories that do NOT have a hostile army on their province) x 2 plus add up all the tax chips x 1. This will give you your available Tax Points. Say you're at 8 right now and then you now have 6. You move the Tax Point pawn down to 6 and then move the Credit Point pawn forward by how many points? 6? Say Italy is currently at 5... it would move to 11 on the Credit Track?

Since I didn't 'gain' anything in the Tax Point (8 to 6) I, as an investor, receive NO bonus from the bank? If however, I had an 11 on this Taxation turn would I then receive 3 Million from the bank?

At this point I then minus any armies and navies x 1 from the total Tax Amount and this will give me my final amount that I take from the bank and place in that respective country's vault?

Do I have any of this right? What, if anything do I have wrong?


The highlighted part is wrong. If you look at the tax chart, you will see two numbers. On the left is the revenue, which is the number you calculated. On the right is the power number, which is the amount the country moves on the power track. If I recall correctly, 6 revenue adds one power point.

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Tim Schwarz
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lindelos wrote:


Niggly Point: I can place money AT ANY TIME in any country that I hold majority? Or can I do this with any country that I hold a bond in?


Controller definitely CAN give money to the controlled country. For the rest, I don't know, but check out this thread.

 
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Romain Jacques
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from the rules:
Quote:
The players hold the treasuries they control in trust. There are not allowed to dispose of the treasuries personally nor lend or give away money from the treasury. However, they are allowed to give personal cash to the treasury at any time in order to support it financially
 
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Richard Young
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Romain wrote:
from the rules:
Quote:
The players hold the treasuries they control in trust. There are not allowed to dispose of the treasuries personally nor lend or give away money from the treasury. However, they are allowed to give personal cash to the treasury at any time in order to support it financially


That's the quote I was trying to remember. There has been some discussion about what that actually means. The conclusion I recall is that you can transfer from your personal cash to the treasury of a country that you control (only) when required: to pay investors during the Investor Phase; to pay for purchases (Import or Factory); and, could come in to play when your tax point revenue is insufficient to cover maintenance costs (Taxation). In all cases except the Investor Phase, this is entirely optional.

I believe that final point is covered in the rules which says that units must be dismantled if they can't be maintained. We've had some discussion about whether the controller's personal cash could help out in that situation. Don't see why not? May be a poor investment but that is what the game is all about...
 
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Tim Schwarz
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Bubslug wrote:
I believe that final point is covered in the rules which says that units must be dismantled if they can't be maintained. We've had some discussion about whether the controller's personal cash could help out in that situation. Don't see why not? May be a poor investment but that is what the game is all about...


As far as I recall, units are never required to be dismantled for lack of pay.
 
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Richard Young
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That may be a house rule we've been using then. Just didn't make sense that there was no penalty for failing to pay the recruits - which led to the idea of having the option of paying them from personal cash or sending them home...
 
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Tim Schwarz
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Bubslug wrote:
That may be a house rule we've been using then. Just didn't make sense that there was no penalty for failing to pay the recruits - which led to the idea of having the option of paying them from personal cash or sending them home...


But we are evil Swiss bankers. devil
We care nothing for the troops of the countries we manipulate.
 
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Evan Stegman
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Bubslug wrote:
Romain wrote:
from the rules:
Quote:
The players hold the treasuries they control in trust. There are not allowed to dispose of the treasuries personally nor lend or give away money from the treasury. However, they are allowed to give personal cash to the treasury at any time in order to support it financially


That's the quote I was trying to remember. There has been some discussion about what that actually means. The conclusion I recall is that you can transfer from your personal cash to the treasury of a country that you control (only) when required: to pay investors during the Investor Phase; to pay for purchases (Import or Factory); and, could come in to play when your tax point revenue is insufficient to cover maintenance costs (Taxation). In all cases except the Investor Phase, this is entirely optional.

...


I don't think that interpretation is supported by the rules.

"[A]t any time" means 'at any time'.

I am not sure where this narrow interpretation of "to support it financially" meaning 'only if the nation is going to be spending it immediately' is coming from but I don't see anything in the rules that would indicate it and it is not what the phrase means in the broader world.

If I have a child out on their own and I give them $500 a month to help them make ends meet, I am supporting them financially regardless of whether rent is due when I give it to them or not. To 'support financially' just means 'give money' and not the narrower interpretation above.

But it really is a moot point because I can't see why anyone would want to give a nation money when the nation wasn't about to pay for something. Still, if someone somewhere sometime thought of something that made them think it was a good idea, I see nothing in the rules that would prohibit it and in fact seem to expressly allow it.
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Richard Young
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Looks like we basically agree then. Players can put their personal money into the treasury of a country they control but no other. My examples were not meant to restrict the player's privilege other than to point out when such transfers were mandatory and when they were optional.

The dividend payment situation is one where it is not optional. In fact if the combination of treasury and personal cash does not ensure that each investor (other than the controller) is paid in full, the action cannot be taken. The other situations are optional - including, if you insist, the situation where you just want to do it for no reason at all...
 
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