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Yesterday's AtB session brought up a weird situation: We had a group of a tank transporting an infantry squad. The group was marked as spent, but my oponent had a card "Hasty Defense" and wanted to play it as a group card action on this group. Theoratically this ment that the tank would get a hasty defense marker, and the infantry sitting on top of it too.

This sounded really weird for me, since I could not imagine how a unit that is exposed anyway sitting on the top of a tank could effectively build up a strengthened position there (I understand hasty defense as improvised foxholes or at least some sandbags shielding etc.). So I called my veto on this. My argument was that if it was really possible for the infantry to build a hasty defense on top of the tank, when the tank moved on transporting the squad, the hasty defense would be moved too thus causing a conflict with the rule that hasty defense always is lost when the unit moves. My gaming partner argued that it would go away, because even a transport is a group movement carried out by the tank and the squad in combination.

In the end after some discussion, I agreed that it was possible to fortify the loaded unit, since there was nothing in the rules that would explicitely forbid it, but It still felt uncomfortable and wrong for me.

Well, as the game went on, this group came under fire, and the loaded squad was hit despite their hasty defense. They got a "pinned" hit marker. Now the next discussion came up: What happens, when a loaded unit gets immobilized with a hit marker? Since the group movement needed to transport a unit is a combined effort from the vehicle and the transported unit (see above), applying the same philosophy as with the hasty defense problem would mean that the pinned squad is not able to perform a group movement with the tank due to its pinned-marker, thus the complete group is blocked (since loading, unloading and moving are defined as "group movement actions", see 17.0 SoS rules). So, a loaded squad that gets immobilized can neither move, nor up- od download. However, again it feels wrong that a pinned squad on top of a tank would block the tank's movement this way. Finally, we could not find any rule that forbids that a loaded unit can rally while being loaded, so our interpretation was that the group is blocked until the squad on top of the tank rallies successfully.

In the end all this was not really decisive for victory of this session, but a time consuming discussion. Since both questions are tied together in some way, maybe somebody can provide the official solution to it. Thanks in advance.
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Okay, I reply myself on what concerns the second question. I found this on the Academy Games Q&A:

Q: A truck-mounted German rifle squad took fire from a Russian rifle squad. The truck received no damage, but the rifle squad took a pin marker. Does the rifle squad have to dismount or does it remain mounted and continue on with the truck?

A: The unit would not be able to leave the vehicle, but the vehicle would still be able to drive with the infantry in it, since that does not use the infantry's movement number on the counter.

I wonder why this was not included in the new SoS rulebook, since I can imagine that it happens every now and then.

I found nothing about the hasty defense question yet though.
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David desJardins
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It seems that even if the unit is pinned when it's not loaded, a vehicle can enter its hex and pick it up, and then move it around while it is still pinned.
 
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O B
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Nick Warcholak wrote:

You can put a Hasty Defense of the group just as your friend did. It would get lost as soon as they move like normal.


Withe regards to the hasty defense I agree it seems nonsensical at first to put a defense marker on a loaded unit. However if you think of the hasty defense of a vehicle as representing a good hull down position behind a crest or in a gully, then it's necessary for both the transporting and loaded unit to receive the benefits of that position.

You could notate it either by putting a marker on both the transporting and loaded unit, or by putting a single marker counter over the stack and applying the effect to both units. It's not clear to me which is the way best recommended by the spirit of the rules.
 
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Fabrizio
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No official solution for this? I recently draw a hasty defense card in a vehicle only firefight and wondered if I could use it anyway. It seemed unrealistic and wrong to me, because actually just foot units can prepare a hasty defense in play. So I decided that the card would have been wasted. I am not 100% sure the hasty defense cant be an exception when called bye card. Was the interpretation of the rules correct in this case?
 
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Jesse LeBreton
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Vehicles can use the hasty defense card. The card is intended to be more flexible than the regular hasty defense action.

Also to backup what has already been said. Pinned foot units can't load or unload from a vehicle. Consider it just like not being able to pivot.

A hasty defense played on a group which contains both a vehicle and its loaded unit will both benefit from the DR increase. The example given previously where a vehicle moved to better cover is a good representation of what could be happening on the battle field. Ergo if the vehicle is now harder to hit, it follows that the transported foot unit would be as well.
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Fabrizio
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Ok thank you very much for clarifying my doubts. Effectively it is in the card descriptions and the paragraph about hasty defense was misunderstood by me. It says:

"18.1.3 Hasty Defense counters represent a hastily fortified position which may be placed in any terrain expect water. A hasty defense may be prepared by any foot unit as an action by paying 7APs or by
playing an action card. Ex: Card 02 or 11."

I thought Ex: standed for Example and not Exceptions, so I forgot looking at the card description, and was sure about my wrong interpretation of the rules.
 
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