Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
13 Posts

Cosmic Encounter: Cosmic Incursion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Alien Clarifications! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Chris Withem

Texas
msg tools
mbmbmb
Played only one game so far and a lot of questions came up about fungus He is in my mind the best alien now.

Fungus - Captured ships are not removed from game, nor do they goto the warp, correct? When captured ships are finally destroyed do alien powers finally take effect? (powers like zombie, fury, healer, etc etc) or does the part about "these ships have no special powers" insist that they just goto the warp as normal? With the super-flare Ships don't unadhere when they goto the warp. Does this also prevent other players from taking ships fungus has taken? Also when revealing the super-flare, do stacks still count as 1 ship for warpish effects? or do yous till count them individually?

Merchant - Hired ships count as defender rewards -and- compensation, correct? Are hired ships also protected from being stolen via compensation?

Chronos - How much is actually undone? Played cards get returned, but to drawn cards and/or discarded cards get returned also? (trader flare, hate flare, chosen flare, kamikazee power, mutant power, etc etc)

Duece - If playing a kicker, he would play 3 cards down then?

Leviathan - Worldship is in addittion to the 1-4 ships you can send on the gate originally? and adds the number of ships on the worldship as well?

Mind Wild-flare affects the rewards deck as well as the main deck, correct? I know there is a lot of "iffyness" about cards specifying the "discard deck" but i am taking it to believe that any ability (fido, vulch, filch, etc) that effects discarding cards equally affects rewards cards being discarded. Is it also not the same for drawing cards? Also along that line, can kamikazee lose ships to draw from the rewards deck (as well as mutant, remora, etc)?

Plant - grafting reincarnator steals the "imprinted" alien as well?

Reserve - can now play the negative cards as reinforce since they are indeed below 6?

Symbiote - his power is to have 40 ships. his super flare is unstoppable in anyway and he cannot be cosmic zapped, correct?

Trader - sucks to trade hands if opponent has a rift, correct?

--------------------------
In the case of some double power variant...

Virus + Fungus - what happens first? multiply the number played by the ships? or add the stacks, then multiply? It matters, right?

Kamikazee + fury - sending ships to draw cards adds counters on your sheet?

Void + fungus - which ability happens first? or is it a choice?

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Barney Bustoffson
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'll bite, with my two cents...

NoobSauce wrote:
Fungus - Captured ships are not removed from game, nor do they goto the warp, correct? When captured ships are finally destroyed do alien powers finally take effect? (powers like zombie, fury, healer, etc etc) or does the part about "these ships have no special powers" insist that they just goto the warp as normal? With the super-flare Ships don't unadhere when they goto the warp. Does this also prevent other players from taking ships fungus has taken? Also when revealing the super-flare, do stacks still count as 1 ship for warpish effects? or do yous till count them individually?


Captured ships not removed from game, or in the warp, yes.
Once they are in the warp, they are in there. Healer can prevent the stacked ships from going to the warp by healing them. Zombie has to take his ships out of the warp like everyone else, just as if he'd been zapped on his own and his ships went to the warp (they aren't just freed when he gets his power back).
Super flared Fungus stacks stay in stacks, so no- players don't get them back.
They still count as 1 ship each for Warpish- only Fungus gets the advantage of their worth (though I could be convinced otherwise).

NoobSauce wrote:


Merchant - Hired ships count as defender rewards -and- compensation, correct? Are hired ships also protected from being stolen via compensation?


Since they don't return to your hand until the end of the encounter, my guess is they can't be taken as compensation. And they do count for collecting rewards and compensation themselves.

NoobSauce wrote:

Chronos - How much is actually undone? Played cards get returned, but to drawn cards and/or discarded cards get returned also? (trader flare, hate flare, chosen flare, kamikazee power, mutant power, etc etc)


The original Chronos only really affected the played encounter cards. Mayfair's Chronos existed in a world with reinforcements, though I don't recall ever reading clarifications about what happens to them. We just played that a card laid was a card played, and they were gone. Same for any flares or artifacts that were played. Here's some Mayfair era words on other things:

"Chronos' victims' kickers are put aside with their challenge card, and returned with the challenge card at the challenge's end.

Against Deuce, only the Deuce's first card is put aside. The second may be picked up and played again as the first or second card. "

This is going to require official rulings, because it will come up a lot. "Does my one flare per encounter get rebooted too?" Etc.

NoobSauce wrote:

Duece - If playing a kicker, he would play 3 cards down then?


The kicker is played down, but can only be played with the first card. The other card doesn't count as an encounter card. Deuce could not, therefore, play two kickers.

NoobSauce wrote:

Leviathan - Worldship is in addittion to the 1-4 ships you can send on the gate originally? and adds the number of ships on the worldship as well?


Leviathan can't add any ships to the gate if he's bringing the worldship (only those ships already on it count).

NoobSauce wrote:

Mind Wild-flare affects the rewards deck as well as the main deck, correct? I know there is a lot of "iffyness" about cards specifying the "discard deck" but i am taking it to believe that any ability (fido, vulch, filch, etc) that effects discarding cards equally affects rewards cards being discarded. Is it also not the same for drawing cards? Also along that line, can kamikazee lose ships to draw from the rewards deck (as well as mutant, remora, etc)?


Kamikazee can not draw from the Rewards deck, nor Mutant, and I would suggest that Remora can't either. "The deck" doesn't automatically mean either deck. While it's true that Mercenary and Ghoul's powers specify only deck, per the normal rules for gaining rewards, and don't include the reward deck, I interpret it as the reward deck's inclusion in the game opens up aliens like that to the reward deck when taking rewards- but still isn't treated as an open deck to other effects that can target the deck.

Mind's flare in this case would not be able to affect the reward deck.

NoobSauce wrote:

Plant - grafting reincarnator stealst he "imprinted" alien as well?


Yes.

NoobSauce wrote:

Reserve - can no play the negative cards as reinforce since they are indeed below 6?


Yes, he can play them, on either side.

NoobSauce wrote:

Symbiote - his power is to have 40 ships. his super flare is unstoppable in anyway and he cannot be cosmic zapped, correct?


Super flare can only be used once. It's unstoppable one time.

NoobSauce wrote:

Trader - sucks to trade hands if opponent has a rift, correct?


Correct.


NoobSauce wrote:

Virus + Fungus - what happens first? multiply the number played by the ships? or add the stacks, then multiply? It matters, right?


The stacks are treated as just the ships, with whatever their value is. Multiply that value to the card value.

NoobSauce wrote:

Kamikazee + fury - sending ships to draw cards adds counters on your sheet?


Yep.

NoobSauce wrote:

Void + fungus - which ability happens first? or is it a choice?


Tough call. I'd have them be captured, since the power does state that effects preventing them from going to the warp can't stop it. While Void doesn't precisely fit this, I think it's enough precedent to make a ruling.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Withem

Texas
msg tools
mbmbmb
Bustoffson wrote:
I'll bite, with my two cents...

NoobSauce wrote:
Fungus - Captured ships are not removed from game, nor do they goto the warp, correct? When captured ships are finally destroyed do alien powers finally take effect? (powers like zombie, fury, healer, etc etc) or does the part about "these ships have no special powers" insist that they just goto the warp as normal? With the super-flare Ships don't unadhere when they goto the warp. Does this also prevent other players from taking ships fungus has taken? Also when revealing the super-flare, do stacks still count as 1 ship for warpish effects? or do yous till count them individually?


Captured ships not removed from game, or in the warp, yes.
Once they are in the warp, they are in there. Healer can prevent the stacked ships from going to the warp by healing them. Zombie has to take his ships out of the warp like everyone else, just as if he'd been zapped on his own and his ships went to the warp (they aren't just freed when he gets his power back).
Super flared Fungus stacks stay in stacks, so no- players don't get them back.
They still count as 1 ship each for Warpish- only Fungus gets the advantage of their worth (though I could be convinced otherwise).


So Fury is totally f'ing boned against fungus? damn. lol. If healer heals the ships, does fungus retain control of the stack?

Bustoffson wrote:

NoobSauce wrote:

Mind Wild-flare affects the rewards deck as well as the main deck, correct? I know there is a lot of "iffyness" about cards specifying the "discard deck" but i am taking it to believe that any ability (fido, vulch, filch, etc) that effects discarding cards equally affects rewards cards being discarded. Is it also not the same for drawing cards? Also along that line, can kamikazee lose ships to draw from the rewards deck (as well as mutant, remora, etc)?


Kamikazee can not draw from the Rewards deck, nor Mutant, and I would suggest that Remora can't either. "The deck" doesn't automatically mean either deck. While it's true that Mercenary and Ghoul's powers specify only deck, per the normal rules for gaining rewards, and don't include the reward deck, I interpret it as the reward deck's inclusion in the game opens up aliens like that to the reward deck when taking rewards- but still isn't treated as an open deck to other effects that can target the deck.

Mind's flare in this case would not be able to affect the reward deck.


specifically mercenary and ghoul, if they're gaining cards as a defensive ally (as their power says), why are they not allowed to take from the rewards deck? I'm just playing a bit of devil's advocate and can see this argument from all sorts of sides. I haven't actually seen the rule book regarding the rewards deck but i am unable to see why an alien wouldn't be able to draw or see cards drawn from the rewards deck using flares or their ability. I could see from a logical standpoint why an alien wouldn't want to draw from the reward deck though on the basis of no flares, very few attack cards, etc etc.


Bustoffson wrote:

NoobSauce wrote:

Plant - grafting reincarnator stealst he "imprinted" alien as well?


Yes.


Losing as a grafted reincarnator forces you to reincarnate into a new alien prior to returning it to its original owner then?

Bustoffson wrote:

NoobSauce wrote:

Symbiote - his power is to have 40 ships. his super flare is unstoppable in anyway and he cannot be cosmic zapped, correct?


Super flare can only be used once. It's unstoppable one time.


until redrawn, correct? (or taken from the discard pile via artifact/flare). Also along the lines of symbiote wild flare. It states "every" Intended to be an everlasting flare? or must be revealed every regroup phase?

Bustoffson wrote:

NoobSauce wrote:

Virus + Fungus - what happens first? multiply the number played by the ships? or add the stacks, then multiply? It matters, right?


The stacks are treated as just the ships, with whatever their value is. Multiply that value to the card value.


Soooo add the 10 ships i've captured to the 4 ships i've sent and then multiply 14 by the 6 i played? (for 84 attack) orrrr multiply 4 by 6 and then add 10? (for 34 attack)? see what i mean by it matters?

Bustoffson wrote:

NoobSauce wrote:

Void + fungus - which ability happens first? or is it a choice?


Tough call. I'd have them be captured, since the power does state that effects preventing them from going to the warp can't stop it. While Void doesn't precisely fit this, I think it's enough precedent to make a ruling.


I would very much appreciated some sort of ruling, or at least community stand on this choice since it can come up. Fungus's ability is mandatory as is Void's. Void's super flare says he may use his power as an ally, so it is very possible even in single power games. My group reads a bit too heavily into void's power (i think)saying that the ships never goto the warp, they go directly to the void, therefore any card that says "goes to the warp" automatically gets trumped by void. Though on a slightly base-set question...

Void + Cudgel - smashed ships are sent to the void as long as i revealed an attack card (and had a successful encounter/win)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Reda
United States
Herndon
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Guess the games in my uberbadge!
badge
My favorite game is Cosmic Encounter.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It would seem, by a strict reading of the powers that Fury is indeed hosed by Fungus. That may change, but for now- they were prevented from going to the warp, ala Fungus, and this can't be turned into tokens via Fury.

Healer can't heal ships that are being captured by Fungus. Once the ships are in the warp, they are freed, but by then I don't think Healer can do anything about it. Healer can heal the stacks before they go to the warp, in which case Fungus keeps the stacks intact.

Any card or effect that targets the deck can't be used on the Reward deck, and the only way to get to cards from that deck is to gain rewards. Mercenary and Ghoul may use their powers on the Reward deck, since they are gaining "rewards".

If Plant steals Reincarnator and loses, then Reincarnator will have a new incarnation. While Plant has grafted an alien, it is for all intents and purposes as if he IS that alien. Proceed accordingly.

The Symbiote wild flare must be played each encounter to have its affect. That would prevent you from playing another flare that encounter.

For Fungus, each stack is considered one ship. Calculate the value of the stack, and that is the value you multiply by your attack card.

Since Void trumps Zombie, it means that the eradication occurs instantly and separate from other game mechanics (most commonly a trip to the warp). Therefore, I would suggest that Void trumps Fungus as well. Healer trumps Void though, so you have a nice circle of life.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Withem

Texas
msg tools
mbmbmb
Fury does NOT get tokens when their captured ships goto the warp, correct?

That circle of life is kind of funny. Sounds like something CE would do. I really do like fungus. He's so rediculuously good. And if you can indeed not regroup out of his stacks (After revealing his super flare), the he's so much better then void.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Barney Bustoffson
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Actually, when Fury's ships go into the warp, she gets the tokens. It shouldn't matter how they got there: the warp is the warp. No tokens for being captured, but if those ships do later end up in the warp, THEN Fury gets the tokens.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Withem

Texas
msg tools
mbmbmb
Bustoffson wrote:
Actually, when Fury's ships go into the warp, she gets the tokens. It shouldn't matter how they got there: the warp is the warp. No tokens for being captured, but if those ships do later end up in the warp, THEN Fury gets the tokens.


that is what we initially ruled, but if that were the case, alien powers like observer, zombie, vacuum, etc would still then work. On the same hand though, Fungus specifically says the ships have no special characteristics so i'm still in the air with this one.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Barney Bustoffson
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Preventing the ships from going to the warp is one thing. Fury gets no tokens when the ships are captured. But when Fungus loses a stack to the warp, the ships are released. Fury's power states that when ships go to the warp, she gets a token for each one. I don't see any ambiguity here 'tall.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Cary
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
I agree that Fury should get their tokens when Fungus releases their ships to the Warp.

I read the "no special qualities" bit from Fungus as meaning that (for example) captured Macron ships count as 1 each not 4.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Withem

Texas
msg tools
mbmbmb
Jhamin wrote:
I agree that Fury should get their tokens when Fungus releases their ships to the Warp.

I read the "no special qualities" bit from Fungus as meaning that (for example) captured Macron ships count as 1 each not 4.


By your reasoning then Vacuum would also work? blowing up ships a soon as they are released by fungus? Would make for some very interesting/mean combinations if Fungus were stacking a bunch of vacuum ships together.

In that sense, Observer, Zombie, and zombie wild flare are all allowed to be used when fungus's stack goes to the warp?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Barney Bustoffson
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ships in a stack are not released until they are already in the warp. Zombie is out of luck in that regard. Curiously, Mayfair ruled that Healer could heal ships being released from a stack in the warp, but I would have thought otherwise.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Toomai Glittershine
Canada
flag msg tools
The FAQ says that Healer releases ships from the warp, as opposed to catching them before they land there. Such would explain that ruling.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Withem

Texas
msg tools
mbmbmb
If they aren't released until they are in the warp, then fury's ability would not trigger, because they are still technically Fungus's. Right?


On a more difficult note....

Leviathan super flare lets the player trade one home planet. Define home planet. Define who picks.

Can I trade a "home planet" that i don't have any ships on (one I don't control) to avoid losing my power or to prevent the win via swapping home planets?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.