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Subject: Hobby Farmer + Schnapps Distiller , Veggies might be possible! rss

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magic gecko
Australia
Melbin Oz
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Vegetables are the weakest of all the possible food engines.

They are slow, hard to eat and need specialist cards.
Veggie cards that are actually strong enough to win with are few and FAR between.
Drafting seems to be the only real way of getting a criticial mass of this sort of card.


Hobby Farmer gets a vegetable now AND plants it.
This has got to be the fastest way of getting veggies.

The Schnapps Distiller is strong.
5 food per harvest is a lot, if you have the veggie to chomp.




Useful Minors
Potatoe dibber
Stawberry Patch
Turnip Field
Lettuce Patch: 1V=4f each Harvest.
Liquid Manure (wooooo !)
Glasshouse
Cooking Corner
Spices
Gardner: Veggies are taken from supply during harvest, not from fields
Planter Box
Turnip field


Useful Occupations. . .
Grocer
Market Woman
Land Agent
Undergardener
Seasonal Worker
Green Grocer: +1V when taking 1Grain action
Schnapps Distiller: 1V=5f each Harvest.



Planting Veggies early is the best way of getting lots.
Planting 2 fields on the last harvest with Veggies gets 4 in the ground.
This means having 2 at the end of the 2nd last harvest, and getting to plant in the last turn.
Having more means you can eat them. 2 Veggies means a whole lot more is needed if you want to eat them along the way, since they grow slowly and need constant planting. This means planting them on the first harvest, again on the second harvest, and maybe every other one as well.

Combining Veggies with Grain seems a mandatory play..
The brewery can be good.
Straw Thatched Roof can win the game.
Corn Sheaf
Market ??? switch 3 grain to 2 Veggies
 
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Einmal ist keinmal
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Sure, it might require several of those cards if you're relying strictly on veggies for your food. But, usually you just play one or two of those cards and vegetables become a viable food alternative.
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Geoff Burkman
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Good springboard for discussion, magic gecko. I tend to agree with Patrick that veggies are best regarded as a back-up food source and/or late game engine. The only real exceptions to this might be putting the Market Crier to immediate use and/or in a "Through the Seasons" game. I'd imagine that both of these avenues would be even better in an "FotM" game.
 
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Mike T
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The biggest reason veggies aren't usually used for food is that they are so much more valuable than other food items. Nevertheless, with the right cards they can be a great way to feed. You don't need the Hobby Farmer, though he is nice, because honestly speed isn't that important: you don't generally need a food engine for the first harvest, and can usually get by even in the second without anything well developed. Here's some more cards that make veggie-farming viable:

Undergardener
Seasonal Worker
Greengrocer
Cooking Corner
Spices

and, of course, the father of all Veggie-farmers, the Gardener. Nothing else in the game makes sustainable food like the Gardener and some sowed veggies.
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magic gecko wrote:
Veggie cards that are actually strong enough to win with are few and FAR between.
The brewery can be good.

Also useful. . .
Potatoe dibber
Market Woman
Stawberry Patch
Turnip Field
Lettuce patch
Liquid Manure (wooooo !)
Glasshouse
Straw Thatched Roof
Grocer
Land Agent


Drafting seems to be the only real way of getting a criticial mass of this sort of card.


Um, the Straw Thatched Roof requires _Grain_ Fields, not Veggies. So does the Brewery.

Also, the Farmers expansion allows for easier Fielding because of the Slash and Burn action, which is the main problem that planting things have.

 
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Marcel Van Assen
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smcmike wrote:
The biggest reason veggies aren't usually used for food is that they are so much more valuable than other food items.


Mike, they are valuable indeed. However, you need only four of them! Each additional veggie is useless. I played some games in which the surplus of veggies provided loads of food, using cards of course.
 
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Mike T
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assen wrote:
smcmike wrote:
The biggest reason veggies aren't usually used for food is that they are so much more valuable than other food items.


Mike, they are valuable indeed. However, you need only four of them! Each additional veggie is useless. I played some games in which the surplus of veggies provided loads of food, using cards of course.


Yes, I agree. My point was just that unless you have a surplus, you rarely want to eat veggies, while I commonly eat animals and very rarely hit the scoring cap in any animal category.
 
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david landes
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Strategically, veggies *can* be a valid way to feed oneself, but it is going to be a rare event. As you pointed out, it requires card support to be successful. Veggies don't even enter the game until round 8 or 9. This means that one support card will have to be a way to get them prior to round 8, and typically substantially prior. Beyond that, almost any successful food engine on the way to a winning strategy will have some type of card support to super-charge it. This is true of animals, grain, board scarfing, and veggies (and some other more offbeat methods).

So, to carry off a winning veggie feeding strategy will probably require two cards to get it moving, one to get the early veggie and one to super-charge it. That's not a particularly common occurrence, and even less so when you take into account that you may get other cards that support other feeding strategies even better. So, strategically, games come up where there is a good veggie strategy, but they are relatively uncommon.
 
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Bryann Turner
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I just had a draft game where I drafted these:

Green Grocer: +1V when taking 1Grain action
Gardner: Veggies are taken from supply during harvest, not from fields
Schnapps Distiller: 1V=5f each Harvest.
Lettuce Patch: 1V=4f each Harvest.

By the second harvest I was getting 9f each harvest for free.
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Mil Myman
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Planter Box, too.
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Joshua Trevino
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I have to agree that veggies do seem to need card support to become a viable food alternative. I did play a game last night where veggies proved to be very useful for food where I played the Undergardener and Seasonal Worker very early. I regularly consumed veggies (with the use of ovens of course) after I hit the four cap.

I had never considered veggies a strong alternative for food, but like others have stated with the right card support it can work.
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Johan Lundstrom
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I got the Grocer/Schnapps Distiller in the other day, and *blasted* my way to victory (55 pts in a three-player game). It was extremely unbalanced.
 
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magic gecko
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Melbin Oz
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This is just ** SO ** much easier in the expansion.

Getting 3 grain in the ground is easy with Farmer of the Moor.
When it runs out is time to plant the Veggies on mass.
It works so well.

But not really in base game.
 
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Mike T
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How many expansion minors give veggies? Are early veggies limited to Level 3?
 
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magic gecko
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Melbin Oz
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Played well, Picked well, limted drafting.

4 players
Winner 50
me 48
3rd 47
4th 40

I used market stall (3 grain-> 2 Veggies)
I used Rancher on turns 3-14 (plow, plow, plow, stable ... . )
I used Midwife Quite a Lot.
I used Wood Buyer at EVERY chance. He is really good!

I just did not have minor improvement actions to build all the wonderful cheap improvement I could have bought. But I did get a Clay oven and a Millstone happening (7 food for a grain)

I do not see how I can score a whole lot more points growing grain + Veggies in the base game without Seriously specialist cards.

Growing stuff is just not as productive.
I think i like Farmers of the Moor especially for this reason. Growing stuff makes much more food, and the food is WAY more usefull.
Eating animals is just too easy in the base game.
 
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