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Victory: The Blocks of War» Forums » Rules

Subject: Timing of supply & cutting supply rss

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Caleb
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So, I understand how supply works, I think. I understand that it's checked for one's armies at the end of the opposing player's turn, and any units out of supply take a hit, and cannot cut enemy supply while they themselves are out of supply.

Last night in a game, we had a question come up. I cut supply to several of my opponent's pieces. He then moved those pieces, though they were still out of supply. Some of my units would've been out of supply due to his move, but since the moving pieces were still out of supply, we ruled my pieces were still supplied. So far, so good.

But what happens if, at the end of my opponent's turn, he moves his blocks so that they can trace a valid supply line? Can they immediately be cutting supply for some of my units, or do they have to wait till the end of MY turn to determine their supply status, and only after THAT be able to cut my supply?


To boil it down, is a unit's supplied/unsupplied status only ever checked at the end of the opposing player's turn, and can only change then?
 
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Caleb
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Over on CSW, there was a brief discussion regarding this topic. Some said that supply should only be checked as per the rules, so units out of supply on the enemy turn cannot cut supply on their own turn, even if they move into (apparent) supply.

However, it was pointed out that the game does not come with "unsupplied" markers, so remembering the status of units could be problematic. It was suggested for ease of play that you check a moving unit's supply when it's done with its move, not for supply attrition, but to see if it is *eligible* to cut enemy supply.

This appears to be a situation where the "letter of the law" may not have actually been the intent, and for playability's sake I'll probably go with the second option in the future.
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Russ Williams
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cannoneer wrote:
It was suggested for ease of play that you check a moving unit's supply when it's done with its move, not for supply attrition, but to see if it is *eligible* to cut enemy supply.

This appears to be a situation where the "letter of the law" may not have actually been the intent, and for playability's sake I'll probably go with the second option in the future.

This is what I assumed the intent was, even though I agree it seems against the literal interpretation of the rules. Do you still play it this way? It certainly seems practically easier and more intuitive.
 
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Caleb
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Haven't played Victory in a long while, but I definitely would continue to play this way. The more you can make maneuver an important aspect of play, the better I think.
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Russ Williams
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We had a frustratingly ambiguous/confusion situation in a recent game. Essentially this:

Blue Red Blue Red
City ------ Unit ---- Unit ---- City


When each unit is on the road between the enemy unit and that enemy unit's only supply source, we're simply baffled what the intent of the rules is, or even what the rules literally say... :/

E.g. in the above situation, if Blue just moved, now Blue's unit is out of supply and so is Red's... or is it? The rules have a paradox that a supply line is broken by an enemy unit, unless that enemy unit is itself out of supply... they're both out of supply, so neither blocks the other, so they're both in supply, so they each block the other, so... Gaaah!

We're not fond of the idea of determining supply status for your units on my turn and then having to remember that supply status until the end of my next turn. So I'm tempted by a model in which supply status of both sides's units is determined as needed at the end of each player turn, but only the non-active player's units can suffer attrition from being out of supply.


I've been toying with the idea that the intent is that, to determine if a unit blocks enemy supply line, consider whether unit X has a supply line ignoring enemy units, i.e. is X on/adjacent to a road to a supply source.

So the Blue unit is considered in supply because (extrapolating intent here...) if we ignore the Red unit, then the Blue unit has a link to a supply source, so therefore the Blue unit block's Red's supply. And similarly the Red unit is supplied if we ignore the the Blue unit, so the Red unit blocks the Blue unit.

In contrast consider:

Red Blue Red
Unit ---- Unit ---- City


Here the Blue unit (ignoring the Red unit) in any case has no supply line to a blue supply source, so it's "absolutely" out of supply (without even needing to consider the presence of Red units), and thus the Blue unit does not block the Red unit's supply.

But I note that this interpretation conflicts with a possible intent of making sudden penetrations behind enemy lines useful for suddenly cutting off supplies, since if I move my units behind enemy lines and my units are themselves now far from my supply bases, then my units can't cut off your units' supply.


Comments, mocks, jeers?
 
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Caleb
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This is like Inception. I'm 7 levels in and falling fast

My understanding from the rules is that for a unit to cut supply, it must be in supply itself at the moment it wants to cut supply (e.g. at the end of that unit's owner's turn). That seems to be the literal meaning of the rule.

(this is consistent with the RAW for Paratroops, who are immediately eliminated if they land somewhere and are, at that exact moment, out of supply)

However, this results in it being VERY difficult to actually get in a position to cut enemy supply, not to mention making paratroops almost completely useless.

I think a better rule, and possibly also consistent with the rules' intent, is that as long as a unit STARTS its movement phase in supply (e.g. it was determined to be in supply immediately prior at the end of the opposing player's just-completed turn), then it should be able to move anywhere it could normally move and then block supply for any enemy units (which is determined at the end of the unit's turn).

My reasoning is that, if supply is only determined for opposing units at the end of your turn, then any units you control that started the turn 'in supply' are, by definition, in supply at the end of your turn, wherever they may be on the map.

It is also consistent with the whole 'out of supply units cannot cut supply' idea:

If I have a unit that begins the turn in supply, then I move it to cut your supply (even if, strictly speaking, my unit is now in a location that would be resolved as 'out of supply' if it were your turn), I now have cut your supply, which is determined at the end of my turn.

Now, it's your turn. You have some units that are OOS. If you do nothing, those OOS units cannot, in turn, place MY unit OOS because they started their turn OOS and thus cannot cut supply, even if they move to re-establish supply for themselves while still cutting my supply.

This does require you to 'remember' which of your own units started the turn in supply, however. And there are no materials provided in the game for that. Any marker would do, however.
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