Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
17 Posts

Pandemic: On the Brink» Forums » Rules

Subject: Epidemiologist question(s) rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Tomas Hejna
Czech Republic
Prague
Czech Republic
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm rather confused of this role & its effectiveness during a play (I saw that there are others complaining too).
So, I have two questions regarding it:

1. Is the power of this role usable only once per her's turn OR only once per her's turn AND encountered player ? (i.e. the power may be executed only once per turn - or more than once?)

2. Also - regardless of the answer to the previous question - it seems to me that this role is better-to-be avoided / not recommended for a 2 player game (of course, unless one wishes for a harder challenge...) ?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B C Z
United States
Reston
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Once, on each of the Epidemiologist's turns.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Weeks
United States
Clifton Park
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
1. Only once per the Epidemiologist's turn may the player take a card from another team member.

2. This is not a role that many of the people I play with like so many times we remove it before selecting team members. I have played with this role in 2 player games and it's not that bad. I think part of the fun with this game is trying out the combination or roles and epidemics.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Lehmann
United States
Palo Alto
California
flag msg tools
designer
mbmb
Once per turn.

Once per player encountered per turn would be meaningless in 2-player games and totally gross at the start of the game in large player games: "Gee, the Epidemiologist goes first, takes 1 blue card from every other player in Atlanta and cures blue. Yawn."

If you really feel the Epidemiologist is too weak (and I'm not convinced it is, as I've discussed in other threads), than you could, as a variant, try something that we playtested for a while but, ultimately, rejected as both too complicated and possibly too powerful, namely that the Epidemiologist can use his special action up to two times per turn.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tomas Hejna
Czech Republic
Prague
Czech Republic
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tom Lehmann wrote:
Once per turn.

Once per player encountered per turn would be meaningless in 2-player games and totally gross at the start of the game in large player games: "Gee, the Epidemiologist goes first, takes 1 blue card from every other player in Atlanta and cures blue. Yawn."

If you really feel the Epidemiologist is too weak (and I'm not convinced it is, as I've discussed in other threads), than you could, as a variant, try something that we playtested for a while but, ultimately, rejected as both too complicated and possibly too powerful, namely that the Epidemiologist can use his special action up to two times per turn.


Thank you for your 'clear' response, Tom: the begining won't work definitely.

I think I understand the reasons why it was rejected in the end, but I feel that with only two players this is the least interesting role - and therefore I'll try your proposed Epidemiologist 'variant' (up to 2 times per turn) with a two player game, firstly.
For more players however, I'll stick to the normal ruling so far.

Btw, were you testing some kind of 'exchange' mechanics as one of the special powers (i.e. take/give)? I was toying with this idea for the Epidemiologist with 2 players...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon Harris
United Kingdom
Sutton
Surrey
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tom Lehmann wrote:
If you really feel the Epidemiologist is too weak (and I'm not convinced it is, as I've discussed in other threads), than you could, as a variant, try something that we playtested for a while but, ultimately, rejected as both too complicated and possibly too powerful, namely that the Epidemiologist can use his special action up to two times per turn.

You've gotta love BGG for this if nothing else - direct feedback from the designer - it's like talking about Minis and Alec Issigonis chipping in cool
Interestingly, we played OtB last night with the new roles for the first time. Randomly selected with all mixed together and we got the Epidemiologist, Dispatcher and (new) Ops Expert. We found her pretty powerful in that combo because the Dispatcher was pulling her all over the place just to be able to pull the right colour cards from folks as soon as they picked them up. I had a full hand pretty much the whole game! Four epidemics plus the purple Virulent Strain and we had it beat with just one turn to spare - excellent!

Simon
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kan D
France
Troyes
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tom Lehmann wrote:
...and totally gross at the start of the game in large player games: "Gee, the Epidemiologist goes first, takes 1 blue card from every other player in Atlanta and cures blue. Yawn."


I did that the first time we played this role! That was great ! Everyone was very excited to cure a disease on the second turn of a game! But, we managed to loose anyway... shake
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sverre
Norway
Oslo
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Oops, seems like we cheated last time we played this...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Layrajha
France
flag msg tools
Tom Lehmann wrote:
Once per turn.

Once per player encountered per turn would be meaningless in two-player games and totally gross at the start of the game in large player games: "Gee, the Epidemiologist goes first, takes 1 blue card from every other player in Atlanta and cures blue. Yawn."

If you really feel the Epidemiologist is too weak (and I'm not convinced it is, as I've discussed in other threads), than you could, as a variant, try something that we playtested for a while but, ultimately, rejected as both too complicated and possibly too powerful, namely that the Epidemiologist can use his special action up to two times per turn.


Hello,

First of all, thank you very much for your answer, and for publishing OtB!

There is one thing that is, I think, wrong with the epidemiologist. Even though I think the work on the balance of the game has been focused on 4 players (which is a good thing), I still don't think that a role should be strictly inferior to another in 2-player game. However, the epidemiologist is, indeed, not far from strictly inferior to the researcher. He has two "strict" weaknesses compared to the researcher, and one difference that can be argued to be either a strength or a weakness.
Weaknesses:
- He can only use his special power once per turn,
- He can only use it during his own turn.
Difference:
- Instead of being the player that gives the cards, he receives them. When the other role is not a "card" role, the difference is slim. When it is a card role, well it depends. I prefer to easily give cards to the scientist than to take cards from him for obvious reasons, but I can understand that people could prefer the opposite, so that the scientist focuses on two colors by drawing only, and gives the other two colors to the epidemiologist instead of discarding them. It means getting the first remedies a bit later (and maybe relying on a little more luck in the early game) but getting the required cards for the last remedies faster, as it balances the hands of the two players.

Maybe I'm missing another advantage of the epidemiologist, but I really think he's inferior to the researcher in two-player games. It's harder to compare them in four-player games.

Anyway, I don't mind playing with all the roles. Getting lucky or unlucky happens in every phase of the game, and we just have to deal with it, it's part of the fun. I just love the game and I'll be playing it until I can win legendary games with 4 players often enough It just think it would been OK to give the epidemiologist some kind of secondary power that scales down with the number of players, just like the Troubleshooter.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Narek Der-Sahakian
United States
Montrose
United States
flag msg tools
mbmb
The epidemiologist's power says take any "non-matching" card. Does that mean you're NOT allowed to take the card of the city you're both on? Weird wording
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Berger
United States
Round Lake
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
narek23 wrote:
The epidemiologist's power says take any "non-matching" card. Does that mean you're NOT allowed to take the card of the city you're both on? Weird wording


I guess you could say that you're not allowed to take the card of the city you're both on using his special power. But you can still take the general Share Knowledge action that everyone can take that allows you to give or receive that card. So it's really immaterial whether or not you can take it with his ability.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Lehmann
United States
Palo Alto
California
flag msg tools
designer
mbmb
narek23 wrote:
The epidemiologist's power says take any "non-matching" card. Does that mean you're NOT allowed to take the card of the city you're both on? Weird wording

Not with your special, but with the normal "share knowledge" action, thus allowing you to get two cards -- one that matches the city you're in and one that doesn't -- from one player in one turn (for two actions).

We used "non-matching" to indicate you could do both of these actions in a single turn -- that neither one prevents the other from occurring.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Narek Der-Sahakian
United States
Montrose
United States
flag msg tools
mbmb
Wow, didn't even think of that. That makes him a bit cooler
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Z
Australia
Rockhampton
QLD
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
arkayn wrote:
narek23 wrote:
The epidemiologist's power says take any "non-matching" card. Does that mean you're NOT allowed to take the card of the city you're both on? Weird wording


I guess you could say that you're not allowed to take the card of the city you're both on using his special power. But you can still take the general Share Knowledge action that everyone can take that allows you to give or receive that card. So it's really immaterial whether or not you can take it with his ability.


It si important as it is one way the epidemiologist can get two cards from the one player in the one spot. He can visit someone in Baghdad and get Baghdad and another black card (good if he needed two more blacks, or a quick flight out of Baghdad).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Berger
United States
Round Lake
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
zayzayem wrote:
arkayn wrote:
narek23 wrote:
The epidemiologist's power says take any "non-matching" card. Does that mean you're NOT allowed to take the card of the city you're both on? Weird wording


I guess you could say that you're not allowed to take the card of the city you're both on using his special power. But you can still take the general Share Knowledge action that everyone can take that allows you to give or receive that card. So it's really immaterial whether or not you can take it with his ability.


It si important as it is one way the epidemiologist can get two cards from the one player in the one spot. He can visit someone in Baghdad and get Baghdad and another black card (good if he needed two more blacks, or a quick flight out of Baghdad).


I don't follow... He can do that regardless of whether or not his special ability allows him to take Baghdad. And in fact, since he can use his special ability only once per turn, he can't use his special ability to take Baghdad if he wants to take another card too.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Z
Australia
Rockhampton
QLD
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
arkayn wrote:
zayzayem wrote:
arkayn wrote:
narek23 wrote:
The epidemiologist's power says take any "non-matching" card. Does that mean you're NOT allowed to take the card of the city you're both on? Weird wording


I guess you could say that you're not allowed to take the card of the city you're both on using his special power. But you can still take the general Share Knowledge action that everyone can take that allows you to give or receive that card. So it's really immaterial whether or not you can take it with his ability.


It si important as it is one way the epidemiologist can get two cards from the one player in the one spot. He can visit someone in Baghdad and get Baghdad and another black card (good if he needed two more blacks, or a quick flight out of Baghdad).


I don't follow... He can do that regardless of whether or not his special ability allows him to take Baghdad. And in fact, since he can use his special ability only once per turn, he can't use his special ability to take Baghdad if he wants to take another card too.


Broken down.

Epidemiologist is in needs 2 more black cards for a cure. Another player meets him in Bagdahd. (1) Uses normal exchange knowledge to take Baghdad. (2) Uses unique role power to also take Moscow. (3) Plays Atlanta from hand. (4) Finds black cure.

Can use unique power once (check), also allowed to use all standard actions (basic + special).

Other roles would have to coordinate meeting in Baghdad one turn and then Moscow another (unless there is a Dispatcher to help it along).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Berger
United States
Round Lake
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
zayzayem wrote:
Epidemiologist is in needs 2 more black cards for a cure. Another player meets him in Bagdahd. (1) Uses normal exchange knowledge to take Baghdad. (2) Uses unique role power to also take Moscow. (3) Plays Atlanta from hand. (4) Finds black cure.

Can use unique power once (check), also allowed to use all standard actions (basic + special).


I'm not arguing with that, and in fact is what I said above. But it has nothing to do with the question that I was answering which was "can the Epidemiologist use his special ability to take the card of the city that he's in?" The answer is, "by strict wording no, but it really doesn't matter."
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.