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Subject: Advanced CLUE... how lame rss

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Mike Foley
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Well the folks at Days of Wonder somehow side stepped a rip off of the long time mystery game Clue it seems with this release of Mystery Express.

Aside from some timing additions and variants on the way things play out I can't say this game is not an advanced version of Clue. How are they getting away with it, or are the dopes that run Hasbro now completely that inept to have not seen this coming into the market?

Days of Wonder makes nice looking games, and I'm a fan of Shadows Over Camelot from them. However, this really disappointed me after reviewing their previews. I can't for the life of me "wonder" why the experienced gamers on this site are drooling for this remake of Clue? Give me a brake... Mr. Brakeman stop this train before it derails into the same old clue realization that it's Col. Mustard, with the Candlestick, in the Conservatory... oh and let's say it was at 4AM and he had a cause?

Even Agatha Christie would be looking for a better hook!

The Condor
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Daniel Grant
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I disagree with this sentiment. So just because a new game has a similar theme or mechanic to an existing easier game, it is automatically just an "advanced" version of the game, and not worth playing? If that was true, why would anyone play Chess? After all, it's just an advanced remake of Checkers. I mean, they both have a board with squares on which you move your pieces to capture the opponent's pieces. All they did was make each piece have a unique way of moving. What a lame ripoff.

If this particular game does not appeal to you, fair enough. But your reasoning on it does not make sense.
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Scott
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I for one, am on board. Clue can be nice, but this looks to really pump up the Clue/ Orient Express like, theme. And yeah, it looks nice, too.

More things to figure out, being able to do certain things in different cars at different times, and a time limit to boot. The tension could be great. I am very much looking forward to it.
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JASON MAXWELL
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Wow you came to a lot of conclusions about this game based on "reviewing their previews". It seems you don't know anything about this game at all. Yes, how lame you are.
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Martin Stever
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There are 40,000 games in the database, so why don't you whine about one you've actually played?

Mystery of the Abbey is a fun twist on the deductive reasoning game, with great replayability. My guess is that DOW will do something equally cool and different with their new deductive reasoning game.

But take a hint from the games, get all your clues before announcing your conclusion, not before.

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Steve Duff
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MartinStever wrote:
My guess is that DOW will do something equally cool and different with their new deductive reasoning game.


There's very little chance of that, we already know almost everything about the game now.
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Fritz Mulnar
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well, owning and playing and enjoying Mystery of the Abbey and the fact Mystery Express is set in the orient express makes me wait for this game to come out. and i prefer MotA to Clue, even the Harry Potter one.

and i prefer waiting for a game, of which i know how it functions.
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Jonathan Warren
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charliethemutt wrote:
What was wrong with Clue? It was a nice game in its day.


I agree. Clue(do) is an example of quite a fine game for its time (except maybe for the board and dice rolling ). It has had a lot of rip-offs, but I quite like deduction games and am looking forward to this release from DOW.
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Ryan Bretsch
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superjosef wrote:
well, owning and playing and enjoying Mystery of the Abbey and the fact Mystery Express is set in the orient express makes me wait for this game to come out. and i prefer MotA to Clue, even the Harry Potter one.

and i prefer waiting for a game, of which i know how it functions.


I see where you are coming from. The more that people are interested in the mechanics of the game, the more I think they want to get a full breadth of the game before passing any level of judgment.

There are others for whom the game mechanics are important but at the same time, they attach almost equal importance to other factors to get a sense of how the game will shape up.

I take no issue that the original poster of this thread isn't going to be a fan of the game. The reasoning he put forth to support and explain his reasoning was, at best, incomplete.

Looking at it objectively, I believe if you can build an expansive case on why you like or dislike a game, independent of the seeing the mechanics in action, the opinion can be very credible. Videogame websites do it all the time in the form of their "previews" and then put out reviews when they have the full version of the game to confirm their preliminary thoughts.

Of course, I will concede that any time a person is afforded the opportunity to actually play the game, the conclusions behind their opinion carry more weight.

Bottom Line: I disagree with the original poster. I think Mystery Express has lots of potential. Had his reasoning been a little more objective and complete, it may have been a more worthwhile take. After all, aren't we all expressing even positive opinions based on what we have seen so far?
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Scott
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The way I see it, is that even if it was an official new version of Clue, I would be very interested because roll and move would be gone, and there's more things to do in this game.
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I love most of Days of Wonders game, and I will buy this one since I love deduction and mystery and Serge Laget is a great designer. The game looks good, but I still wait for that mechanic and twist that that will make this game a great game.
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Mike Foley
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Oh my, I see that BGG is definitely not the place to post criticism about somebody's game. I thought this was America where people can have differing viewpoints. I clearly said I liked the look of the game, like other Days of Wonders product and was just disappointed that this game is clearly a Clue rehash. The Murder on the Orient express story/property really offered a very good theme to integrate it into a unique game.

All you fanboys, that just willingly drop your cash to game developers no matter how lousy a game is, or if it's a copy of something else, are really not looking at it very closely. That was merely my take on it and I'd say aside from some subtle rules, the whole game is right there on their web page. So, I'm not sure why some of you are slinging derogatory comments at me for my two cents about not knowing how it plays? (The core of it is Clue Advanced.)

I was just posting a differing point of view for other gamers that might not be on the Mystery Express "bandwagon" (heavyweight pullman!)

That's that...

The Condor
 
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Randy Schaub
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Of course anyone can post what they want, but you can't expect to be sheltered from opposing points of view. Are you a republican?

R
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AS others already said, there is no roll and move in this game. That is an important difference. It takes out that random luck factor which was one of the glaring flaws of Clue.

Also, the end of the game is completely different. In Clue, you have to make an accusation and then see if you are correct, if you are not you lose the game and are out of the game. {except you still show cards when required for the rest of the game}

This game the end is who got the most elements of the crime correct, there are 5 of them. The only thing I'm wondering is if there is a tie, and two or more people get all the answers, if there will be a tiebreaker.

I also don't understand how the deduction part of the game will work, its hard to see from the game site and the examples of play there how you deduce stuff like in Clue.

Anyway, I think this game looks cool so I have to disagree with the premise.
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Martin Stever
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Randy13 wrote:
Are you a republican?

R


Weak Randy, very weak.
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Mik Svellov
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CondorTheMerciless wrote:
Days of Wonder makes nice looking games, and I'm a fan of Shadows Over Camelot from them. However, this really disappointed me after reviewing their previews.

Maybe you haven't been paying attention to what they actually have released in recent years?

This game seem to fit perfectly into their current catalogue:
(in reverse order without their 'classic' series)

Small World
Gambit 7
Colosseum
Cleopatra and the Society of Architects

If you like the games above, you will most likely also enjoy the new game - and vice versa.
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Giles Pritchard
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CondorTheMerciless wrote:
I thought this was America...


That's funny, I thought this was Australia!
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Jesper RugÄrd Jensen
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I thought we were on the internet, where every dream can be fulfilled and every opinion can be true, or at least uncontested for a couple of seconds.

I for my part would like a Clue-like game that took advantage of all the last many years innovations of mechanisms in gaming - a semi-cooperative, a role based one etc.
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Matt Mayse
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Condor, it's not that you have a differing viewpoint...you have an opinion on a game that hasn't been released yet and are not willing to give it any consideration based on what you have "read" in previews from the game manufacturer and some sort of personal animosity towards Clue. If you had actually played the game and formed an opinion based on factual play or experience, then your viewpoint might have more validity. But, as it stands, because you are biased by your lack of interest in Clue, then this one does not sound like it appeals to you. No interest does not reflect as a viewpoint on the quality or playability of any game listed here on BGG...
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Cameron McKenzie
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Big difference between mechanics and theme. It's fine to be hesitant about this one, but to assume it's a Clue rehash just doesn't make sense. The similiarity is that it's a deduction game that uses cards, but the strategy and way of deducing things could be completely different. We really won't know until we see the rules.

Look at how many times the fantasy adventure theme has been used, but Runebound, Middle Earth Quest, and World of WarCraft all have fairly different mechanics and each is still interesting. It's not really fair to say that any one of them ripped off another, and I don't think it's fair to say that Mystery Express is ripping off Clue, particularly since the theme (murder and who-dunnit) is already so popular even outside the realm of board games. It's still a very broad theme and there are many ways to approach it.
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Mark Bigney
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CondorTheMerciless wrote:
Oh my, I see that BGG is definitely not the place to post criticism about somebody's game. I thought this was America where people can have differing viewpoints. I clearly said I liked the look of the game, like other Days of Wonders product and was just disappointed that this game is clearly a Clue rehash.


a) Please define "clearly", as I believe you are using it in a way with which many of us are unfamiliar.
b) When you post your viewpoint, and others post their in response, a complaint of "wow, nobody gets to express their opinion!" is borderline laughable.
c) By your logic, is Hammer of the Scots "clearly" a Stratego rehash?
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Ryan Bretsch
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CondorTheMerciless wrote:
Oh my, I see that BGG is definitely not the place to post criticism about somebody's game. I thought this was America where people can have differing viewpoints. I clearly said I liked the look of the game, like other Days of Wonders product and was just disappointed that this game is clearly a Clue rehash. The Murder on the Orient express story/property really offered a very good theme to integrate it into a unique game.

All you fanboys, that just willingly drop your cash to game developers no matter how lousy a game is, or if it's a copy of something else, are really not looking at it very closely. That was merely my take on it and I'd say aside from some subtle rules, the whole game is right there on their web page. So, I'm not sure why some of you are slinging derogatory comments at me for my two cents about not knowing how it plays? (The core of it is Clue Advanced.)

I was just posting a differing point of view for other gamers that might not be on the Mystery Express "bandwagon" (heavyweight pullman!)

That's that...

The Condor


I agree that the core of the game is essentially on their website now but simply disagree with your interpretation of it. At the same time, even IF Mystery Express shared some similarities with Clue, I wouldn't consider that "lame". After all, Clue is a great game in many respects.

But I (and I believe several others) see an interpretation of a game that is definitely very much an original take. Expect opposing viewpoints. No harm, no foul.

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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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Am I the only one that doesn't see much of a similarity to Clue here?

Mystery of the Abbey seems much more similar to me.
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E J
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Randy13 wrote:
Of course anyone can post what they want, but you can't expect to be sheltered from opposing points of view. Are you a republican?

R


Gosh I hope so. He makes sense so he must be. Where do you get your point of view Randy? Keith Olberman? Rosie? Sean Penn?
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A. B. West
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apotheos wrote:
Am I the only one that doesn't see much of a similarity to Clue here?

Maybe. Beyond the obvious similar theme of a mystery, let's be honest: it has the same central mechanic - that of removing a number of cards and figuring out what is missing. That is the essential ingredient of Clue. To be sure there are several twists in Mystery Express - not the least of which is there are 2 copies of every card (making things quite a bit more difficult) and a variety of different ways to examine other player's cards. Still, that central mechanic is the same.

How you react to that is subjective. For me, I really don't like Clue and it isn't the dice rolling that bothers me (much). I just don't like the brutal logic of it all. It is for me instead strangely a push your luck game - do you make an educated jump now or wait another round and make sure (even though your opponents might already know for sure)? Mystery Express does make some attempts at solving some flaws of Clue (like removing the dice movement in favor of action points and not forcing you to guess until the end). But I don't think it does enough to change the brutal logic problem. At least, not enough for me.
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