Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
14 Posts

At the Gates of Loyang» Forums » Strategy

Subject: 9 fields at once! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Corin A. Friesen
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In a session last night (2 players), I had 9 fields at once for a few rounds due to getting 3 common fields! To start my action round, I would have 9 or 10 veggies to use. I ended up with 18.4 points! (I would have had 19, but I had a loan. )

It would seem to me that getting as many fields as possible would be very powerful in this game. You can have many customers, both regular and casual, which you can satisfy over a long period of time. It doesn't even matter too much which ones you plant if you can get market stalls to trade for the correct veggies (of course, planting the right ones is the best!).

Have you noticed this? I haven't made any analysis, but I thought I would point this out and hopefully get a discussion going.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nathan Morse
United States
Powell
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, I've enjoyed the pleasure of having 12 at once, if I recall correctly. It was quite the harvest.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Linneman
Canada
Vancouver
BC
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Of course fields are good! That's why they cost $2. More fields=more total veggies=more total VPs. The problem is their high cost, which can necessitate taking loans, which drastically reduces your overall score (as you noticed), and that they need seeds, which can be hard to come by if you have many fields. Also, towards the end of the game their value diminishes dramatically until they become worthless on the last couple turns.

I find I usually buy 2-3 common fields throughout the course of a game if I can. Any more and I cannot seed them fast enough, fewer and I just do not have enough veggies.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Eisen
United States
Menlo Park
CA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
It's terrific, but the only way I have achieved it is to take a couple of loans out to jump start it. This is the only reason I have seen so far to justify taking loans. And I haven't played enough to get a sense of how far you want to push this.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Corin A. Friesen
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Speaking of loans:

If you end a round with zero cash before moving up the prosperity track, then take a loan and move up one space. You have essentially moved nowhere but now you have 4 cash! (OK, it's not exactly the same, but you get what I'm saying.)

That is called applying the ol' Le Havre trick.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grzegorz Kobiela
Germany
Hanover
Lower Saxony
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Editor at Lookout Games
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ambrose wrote:
Speaking of loans:

If you end a round with zero cash before moving up the prosperity track, then take a loan and move up one space. You have essentially moved nowhere but now you have 4 cash! (OK, it's not exactly the same, but you get what I'm saying.)

That is called applying the ol' Le Havre trick.


Bad idea. You have 4 cash now, but you lose like 18 or 19 cash later...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Harold Coleman
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Ponton wrote:
Ambrose wrote:
Speaking of loans:

If you end a round with zero cash before moving up the prosperity track, then take a loan and move up one space. You have essentially moved nowhere but now you have 4 cash! (OK, it's not exactly the same, but you get what I'm saying.)

That is called applying the ol' Le Havre trick. :)


Bad idea. You have 4 cash now, but you lose like 18 or 19 cash later...


Actually, it costs you $1 for every step you take later in the game MORE than the one usual advancement each turn for $1, which is maybe $7-9. For example, let's say you do as Ambrose says and take a loan after Rd 2 and move a space to 3. At the end of a normal game, you might be at 18 tops, or 15 more spaces, 7 of which you bought for $1 each remaining round. So the 8 times you moved an extra space in a turn cost you $1 more to do so than had you been one rank lower, or $8 total, which is probably worth it to get to that extra level. As I said in a different post, I like taking a loan after Rd 2 and using it to move 2 spaces for the $5, or move only 1 and saving the cash if I'm strapped. EDIT/ADD: If you subtract out the value of the loan $5 from the $8 cost in the example, you basically advance one level for a net cost of about $3 and you have some much needed EARLY cash.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Corin A. Friesen
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ponton wrote:
Ambrose wrote:
Speaking of loans:

If you end a round with zero cash before moving up the prosperity track, then take a loan and move up one space. You have essentially moved nowhere but now you have 4 cash! (OK, it's not exactly the same, but you get what I'm saying.)

That is called applying the ol' Le Havre trick.


Bad idea. You have 4 cash now, but you lose like 18 or 19 cash later...

Ah, yeah. Sorry. blush
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grzegorz Kobiela
Germany
Hanover
Lower Saxony
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Editor at Lookout Games
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Harold, this is way easier than you see it: If I'm on 18 and must pay back my loan by falling back to 17, the loan has cost 18. It's as simple as that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Harold Coleman
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Ponton wrote:
Harold, this is way easier than you see it: If I'm on 18 and must pay back my loan by falling back to 17, the loan has cost 18. It's as simple as that.


No offense, Grzegorz, but it's not that simple. For example: Let's say I'm on 16 in the penultimate turn and I have $20 to spend after my final action phase, then pay 1+18 to get to 18 and have $1 left over, but I took out an early loan and drop back to 17. Without the loan, I would have been at 15 on the penultimate turn, and with the same $20 I pay 1+17, still ending at 17 but with $2 left over. The difference in the last turn is $1... period... not $18. The analysis is the same for all rounds in between. If you have taken out a loan, the total cost of the loan is $1 per each EXTRA step you took each turn after the loan, which is only $7-9 total (net cost of $2-4). And the loan allowed you to move a space PLUS give you early cash that could be used to buy a common field or an extra veggie to plant, which will probably benefit you more than the net cost of the loan.

Let's look at an example. Suppose I advance one level in turn 1, but I have no cash after the action phase of turn 2, so I take out a loan and use $1 to advance to level 3 (and I have $4). Without the loan, I'm stuck at level 2. Now, presuming the same level advancement with or without the loan, let's say I can advance exactly two levels in each of the last 7 rounds except for Rd 6 where I can advance 3 levels. The total cost with the loan is (1+5+1+7+1+9+1+11+12+1+14+1+16+1+18=99). In the example without the loan, the total cost of buying the levels is (1+4+1+6+1+8+1+10+11+1+13+1+15+1+17=91). The difference is $8, exactly the number of "extra level" purchases from Rds 3-9; the net cost of the loan is $4. Did the extra $4 from the loan buy enough "stuff" in Rd 3 to make up for the $8 difference? If it allowed you to buy an extra common field or a veggie to sow your Rd 3 private field, I'd venture a "yes" plus some; but it's kind of irrelevant to our discussion of the cost of the loan.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Corin A. Friesen
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
hgcoleman wrote:
Ponton wrote:
Harold, this is way easier than you see it: If I'm on 18 and must pay back my loan by falling back to 17, the loan has cost 18. It's as simple as that.


No offense, Grzegorz, but it's not that simple. For example: Let's say I'm on 16 in the penultimate turn and I have $20 to spend after my final action phase, then pay 1+18 to get to 18 and have $1 left over, but I took out an early loan and drop back to 17. Without the loan, I would have been at 15 on the penultimate turn, and with the same $20 I pay 1+17, still ending at 17 but with $2 left over. The difference in the last turn is $1... period... not $18. The analysis is the same for all rounds in between. If you have taken out a loan, the total cost of the loan is $1 per each EXTRA step you took each turn after the loan, which is only $7-9 total (net cost of $2-4). And the loan allowed you to move a space PLUS give you early cash that could be used to buy a common field or an extra veggie to plant, which will probably benefit you more than the net cost of the loan.

Let's look at an example. Suppose I advance one level in turn 1, but I have no cash after the action phase of turn 2, so I take out a loan and use $1 to advance to level 3 (and I have $4). Without the loan, I'm stuck at level 2. Now, presuming the same level advancement with or without the loan, let's say I can advance exactly two levels in each of the last 7 rounds except for Rd 6 where I can advance 3 levels. The total cost with the loan is (1+5+1+7+1+9+1+11+12+1+14+1+16+1+18=99). In the example without the loan, the total cost of buying the levels is (1+4+1+6+1+8+1+10+11+1+13+1+15+1+17=91). The difference is $8, exactly the number of "extra level" purchases from Rds 3-9; the net cost of the loan is $4. Did the extra $4 from the loan buy enough "stuff" in Rd 3 to make up for the $8 difference? If it allowed you to buy an extra common field or a veggie to sow your Rd 3 private field, I'd venture a "yes" plus some; but it's kind of irrelevant to our discussion of the cost of the loan.

Ah, yeah. Sorry. blush

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grzegorz Kobiela
Germany
Hanover
Lower Saxony
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Editor at Lookout Games
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Harold, ending the game at 17 is not a good score, especially in multi-player. So, there are more than one 3-space advances throughout the game, so your calculation would lead to a bigger loss. Anyway, consider this:

We're on the very last round. You're on 16 and have 14 cash. You proceed for 1 to the 17 and are now missing exactly 5 cash to get to the 18. You'd say: take a loan. OK, so we've got 18 with the loan, proceed to 18 and fall back to 17. Ouch. We're still on 17 with 0 cash left. The payback of the loan has cost exactly 18. As I say. If you didn't take the loan, you'd have 13 cash left and were still on 17.

But then, we were in round 2, not 9. Let's take a look at this situation. We've got no money to get to space 3. Taking the loan, we get there and have 4 cash left. Later we fall back from 18 to 17. What is our 'loss' when not taking the loan? We do not advance to the 3 for 1 cash. That means, we lose out on a 1 cash step instead of a 3 cash step. We lose 3 francs. In the loan scenario, we gain 4 francs, but lose 18 later. Effective total loss: 14.

Taking a loan to proceed 1 step is no good idea in general, even if this is the 1 cash step. However, taking a loan to get an extra field early might ne very beneficial (if you then have 1 cash left to proceed 1 step, of course).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Corin A. Friesen
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ponton wrote:
Harold, ending the game at 17 is not a good score, especially in multi-player. So, there are more than one 3-space advances throughout the game, so your calculation would lead to a bigger loss. Anyway, consider this:

We're on the very last round. You're on 16 and have 14 cash. You proceed for 1 to the 17 and are now missing exactly 5 cash to get to the 18. You'd say: take a loan. OK, so we've got 18 with the loan, proceed to 18 and fall back to 17. Ouch. We're still on 17 with 0 cash left. The payback of the loan has cost exactly 18. As I say. If you didn't take the loan, you'd have 13 cash left and were still on 17.

But then, we were in round 2, not 9. Let's take a look at this situation. We've got no money to get to space 3. Taking the loan, we get there and have 4 cash left. Later we fall back from 18 to 17. What is our 'loss' when not taking the loan? We do not advance to the 3 for 1 cash. That means, we lose out on a 1 cash step instead of a 3 cash step. We lose 3 francs. In the loan scenario, we gain 4 francs, but lose 18 later. Effective total loss: 14.

Taking a loan to proceed 1 step is no good idea in general, even if this is the 1 cash step. However, taking a loan to get an extra field early might ne very beneficial (if you then have 1 cash left to proceed 1 step, of course).

Ah, yeah, sor... wait a minute!...



This reminds me of a Gilligan's Island episode where the party is arguing about something, and every time someone contradicted someone else, Gilligan would say "You have a good point." The Skipper finally gets fed up with that, so he says to Gilligan "Oh Gilligan, we can't all have good points!" And Gilligan says "You know what Skipper... you have a good point too." laugh
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grzegorz Kobiela
Germany
Hanover
Lower Saxony
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Editor at Lookout Games
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, especially, and most confusingly, I think Harold also has a good point.
1 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.