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Conflict of Heroes: Price of Honour – Poland 1939» Forums » General

Subject: Polish - Soviet War of 1919-20 rss

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uwe eickert
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I need some help and input please.
We will be publishing a block game soon and need a good title for the game. I will create a new forum for this game once we have a title!

After WWI Lenin's revolution was in full swing. The Bolshevics planned on spreading their worker's revolution throughout Europe. In his way though stood Poland and their leader Pilsudski (pronounced peew-soot-ski) whose dream of a democratic independent nation catapulted him into attacking the Russians. The ensueing war was very fluid and brutal. Its reprecussions directly caused the mechanical buildup of the Soviet Army, Poland's decisions not to form alliances with either Germany or Russian and thus their future agreement to carve up Poland in WWII.

The game mechanics very unique, easy to learn, fast playing and fun. I usually am not a fan of block games, but this game grabbed me immediately. The tension in how orders are given and the constant guessing and counter guessing what your opponent is planning is a hoot.

Soooo..... I need help with the title. Some ideas that we came up with are:
Rise of the Eagle,
Bolshevik Tide,
Guardians of the Gate,
Assault of the Bolsheviks,
Assaulting the Bolsheviks,
The Rise of Poland.
The Eagle and the Star.

Any others or do any of the above strike a chord?

Thanks for your help and advice.
Uwe
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Jamieson Teo
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"Piłsudski's War - The Polish-Soviet War"
"Against the Bolsheviks - The Polish-Soviet War"
"Rise Against the Bolsheviks - The Polish-Soviet War"

 
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Sean
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The Eagle and the Star is a good one. I would avoid anything starting with 'Rise of' if I were you. Otherwise sounds good so far.
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Chris K.
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Hm ... reading up on what that war was intended to do and what came to pass a few things cross my mind:

Based on one quote from Pilsudski on the situation after WW1
Quote:
" while in the east "there are doors that open and close, and it depends on who forces them open and how far.""

"Forcing the door - ..."
Allthough I am not fond on titles that require explanations.

Going by one of the names allegedly used for it in Poland, I kinda like

"Bolshevik War - 1920"
"Stemming the Tide - Bolshevik War 1920"
"War after War - Bolshevik War 1920"

or for something completely different:
"Poland 1920 - Christened in War"

Or if you plan on doing more games, focusing on the lesser known major engagements and based on the fact that before tonight I wasn't even aware that this war happened:

"Forgotten Wars - Bolshevik War 1920"

Concering your own suggestions:

"Eagle and Star" wouldn't be associated even close to the topic for me.
"Rise of" is pretty overdone but probably fitting with a good subtitle.
Both "Assault" Versions are out for me, as assault of the bolsheviks is kinda misleading and "assaulting the bolsheviks" feels kinda polemic to me.
Considering that there is no overly clear agressor in this war and that judging by the first reading both sides didn't really intend on it going to this scale and more or less stumbled into it, I would avoid any title that places too much emphasize on intentional agression by either side.

So much for my 2 cents.
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Chris Schlobach
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Well, good luck with the game. But I do find this somewhat amusing as a block game on this subject, titled The Eagle and the Star, has just been released in 2009 You can check it out here. Mind you it is by a small Polish publisher so it is probably not as well known. But there is an English version of the game and it's supposed to be really good.

Or will you actually re-publish this very game for the American market?
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Mike M
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Since it is an Academy Games title isn't an exclamation point at the end mandatory?
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CSchlobach wrote:
Well, good luck with the game. But I do find this somewhat amusing as a block game on this subject, titled The Eagle and the Star, has just been released in 2009 :p You can check it out here. Mind you it is by a small Polish publisher so it is probably not as well known. But there is an English version of the game and it's supposed to be really good.

Or will you actually re-publish this very game for the American market?


Indeed, Uwe's description does make it sound very much like The Eagle and The Star:

uweeickert wrote:

The game mechanics very unique, easy to learn, fast playing and fun. I usually am not a fan of block games, but this game grabbed me immediately. The tension in how orders are given and the constant guessing and counter guessing what your opponent is planning is a hoot.


If it is a reprint, I'd stick with the original name. If you think this does not give enough instant recognition for the subject (and maybe this is what Uwe is trying to gauge), just add ': The Polish-Soviet War, 1920'.

If it's a new game, what about 'Miracle on the Vistula: The Polish-Soviet War, 1920'. I quite like the 'Guardians of the Gate' and chrisdk's suggestion of 'Stemming the Tide', although I would call it 'The Polish-Soviet War' rather than the 'Bolshevik War' (which is less precise). Unfortunately, we can't continue the Martin Wallace trend of naming games after Norman Davies books, as that's already taken...
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Martin
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CSchlobach wrote:
Or will you actually re-publish this very game for the American market?


This image seems to answer that question

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Chris Schlobach
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guzerat wrote:
CSchlobach wrote:
Or will you actually re-publish this very game for the American market?


This image seems to answer that question


Indeed It would have been the strangest coincidence otherwise. I wonder why Uwe didn't link to the game page. Anyway, now I'm curious what treatment the game will get. Will there be any differences apart from packaging and title?

As for the title, I like Salo sila's suggestion to just add "The Polish-Soviet War, 1920" to the existing title (which IMO is a good one).
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Ray Smith
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I am already a huge fan of the Gry Leonardo version of The Eagle and The Star. A great and fun simulation that needs no revamping (even though the counters were cut horribly, and the rulebook layout is bland, still a beautiful game). I'm sure that Uwe will find some way to jazz things up even more.

Regardless, I agree that the title of The Eagle and the Star: The Polish-Soviet War of 1920 is spot on for an Academy title.
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Cindy Nowak
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I agree - The Eagle and the Star: The Polish-Soviet War of 1920 is an excellent title.

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Damen Parker
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chrisdk wrote:
Hm ... reading up on what that war was intended to do and what came to pass a few things cross my mind:

Based on one quote from Pilsudski on the situation after WW1
Quote:
" while in the east "there are doors that open and close, and it depends on who forces them open and how far.""

"Forcing the door - ..."
Allthough I am not fond on titles that require explanations.



I like "Forcing the door - ...". It captures the imagination.

Otherwise I would go with The Eagle and the Star though you would need a prefix/suffix sub-title to distinguish it from other titles.

I enjoy the CoH series and have recently bought Richard III which as far as block games go is the best I have come across.

I look forward to this.

Cheers
D.
 
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uwe eickert
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Yes, we aquired the international publishing rights for "The Eagle and The Star". I love the system, but am not enthusiastic about the current presentation. Please do not get me wrong, the game is wonderfully done. The points below are not critiques, but an attempt to make a great game better. We will be making the following changes.
1. The rules will be rewritten, concepts edited, and streamlined.
2. The map will be redone.
The huge map is too ungainly (not everyone has the room to play on a ping pong sized table, or close to it)
Difficult to read (No color coding for cities, national boundaries, rivers, trench systems, etc.)
Difficult to find objective cities (unless you live in Poland),
National boundaries are not clear (again, for the rest of us unfamiliar with the 1920 geography. "So where is Lithuania on this map?"),
The tracks will be removed from the map (so that players do not need a huge table to play each game.)
3. The cards will be redone. (Currently the event topic is above the reinforcement box instead of above the event description).
4. The blocks will be redone (Full color and color coordinated per alliance).
5. More scenarios will be included, concentrating on smaller two player into scenarios. (Allowing players to be easily introduced into the game or for players that want to play a quick 1 hour battle).
6. Title change: This is the most difficult item on the list, since we have to fire the imaginations of gamers that know nothing about this segment in history and may not think that they care about this segment in history. How do we link the game title and description to emotional triggers that a broader audience will react to? Action words often trigger emotions, words or topics related to other wars, etc. I really like some of the answers given.

So please, I need "constructive" advice and help here.

Robert and I have the project outlined and timelined for a speedy release.

Thanks in advance.
Uwe

PS - I guess that we now actually do need to create a distinct forum page for this game. So get me some good title suggestions!!
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Cindy Nowak
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Miracle on the Vistula - although the phrase was used initially to express disapproval of the tactics in the Ukraine.

Or, expand upon the Eagle and Star - with the imagery of White Eagle/Red Star.
 
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Chris Schlobach
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Sounds very good, Uwe. The current map board is about the size of two standard (22"x34") map sheets. You intend to reduce it to one map sheet? Could be tricky if you still want to have enough space left for the blocks. Will the map board be mounted? (Not sure if it is in the current edition.)

Well, after reading the rules I really wanted to buy the game soon. Now I might postpone it until the new edition is released. Speedy release sounds good. Is there already an ETA? And maybe an approximate price tag?

I think it's great that Academy Games picked up this game. This will give the game and its author the international attention it deserves.
 
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Hawkeye
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I think The Eagle and the Star works as well as anything, although I like The Bolshevik War as well. I'm sure some sort of subtitle like "Poland against the Bolsheviks" will be needed to clarify, but that is pretty standard for most games with interesting titles.

Best of luck with it, Uwe. I was going to get the Polish version but have yet to see one so I suppose I will wait for yours.
 
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Mike M
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I like White Eagle, Red Star: The Polish-Soviet War 1920.

It mentions both sides, adds a bit of color (literally), and clearly lets you know where and when -- important for those of us who were unfamiliar with the war until they started reading this thread! modest
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Cindy Nowak
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Sheep wrote:
I like White Eagle, Red Star: The Polish-Soviet War 1920.


Except that that is nearly the exact title of a book
 
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Richard Pardoe
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Ummm...sounds like Uwe would need to give away a copy of the book with each pre-order.....
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Mike M
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scoutmom wrote:
Sheep wrote:
I like White Eagle, Red Star: The Polish-Soviet War 1920.


Except that that is nearly the exact title of a book


I wasn't aware of that, obviously. Is it really a conflict anyway? Out of curiosity, I did a quick search on Amazon for Paths of Glory and Twilight Struggle and the titles are in use multiple times.
 
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uwe eickert
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Robert told me that White Eagle, Red Star would not work due to the copyright issues with Random House Press.

Also, these titles will not provoke any type of emotional response from people. When I mention this period, most people say "Huh? The Polish had a war in 1920. Must not have been important, because I never heard of it."

But if you mention Lenin and the Bolshevik revolution and the rise of communism, well everyone has heard of this. So how does one link the two to pique mass market interest?

There are some good title ideas already. I am almost leaning to using Bolsheviks in the title in some way. How about the name Lenin? Unfortunately, Pilsudski is unknown at this time by 99.99% of the people. (Hopefully, this game will rectify this!

Robert has been great to work with, a real professional. So I think that the improvements that our group has recommended will result in a much more streamlined game.

As for the current boards. I want to keep them in two parts. But I want the tracks off of both of them. Currently, both boards must always be fully set up to play. That takes up a LOT of room 100% of the time. But if we have two playing boards depicting only the playing surface, then gamers can play scenarios that sometimes utilize only 1 of the boards (or even just 1/2 of a board), and thus save on a lot space requirements.

Uwe
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uwe eickert
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As some of you know, I am very project oriented. Most games in development are mapped out in Microsoft Project and include time lines, task responsibilities, and task links. So I have a good idea when the project should be done. But the project is in its first 5% of completion and I do not want to give a release date at this time other than to say that I expect the game to be ready for sale in the 3rd quarter of this year.

Now I will accept help in reviewing the updated rules. I know that the more eyes we have, the more errors and questions are resolved early on. The rules are scheduled to be at this stage in 3.5 weeks.

Uwe
 
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
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Quote:
3. The cards will be redone. (Currently the event topic is above the reinforcement box instead of above the event description).


Sounds good. I hope you will keep the historical notes on the cards.

As for titles. What about:

Bolshevic tide - The Russo-Polish war 1919-20

Stopping the revolution - The Russo-Polish war 1919-20

Lenin goes west - The Russo-Polish war 1919-20

Spreading the revolution - The Russo-Polish war 1919-20

World revolution? - The Russo-Polish war 1919-20

Lenin´s failed conquest - The Russo-Polish war 1919-20

Stopping the Bolshevics - The Russo-Polish war 1919-20



Brian

 
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Maciej Czerwiec
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I think that "The Eagle and the Star: Polish- Soviet war 1920" would be really good, but I also like "Stopping the revolution - The Russo-Polish war 1919-20", it suits topic nicely.

Lenin goes west sounds a bit funny to me
 
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Wulf Corbett
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Lenin marches west?
 
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