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Subject: My idea for the Hazard Deck rss

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Chris O
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I have read about Hazards on The Warp. However I don't think making that many cards in that format is very feasible, or efficient. I think the better idea to to make it in the same style as how "Events" are used in Cutthroat Caverns.

Without having any art right now to show you (I can make it at another time), I will explain what I am talking about.


OK, so every encounter, destiny is drawn. It is always a color, a wild, or special destiny. That is 3 types of destiny. However, there are actually 8 types of hazard symbol (including orange) now: red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple, the rainbow for wild, and the mechanical looking thing on specials.

So what if there was a relatively small deck of Hazard cards you put next to the destiny deck that have specific requirements for them to activate, mainly what symbols accompany the destiny flip. If it matches one of the symbols on the hazard card, it activates. If it doesn't match anything, it doesn't activate.

Examples:

- Destiny flips red, hazard card has red, blue, and wild symbols on it, so it activates.
- Destiny flips yellow, hazard card has blue, green, and mechanical symbol, so it doesn't activate.

More to come at another time, but you get the general point. The Hazards can hurt or help offense, but one side WILL be harmed. I's all the luck of the draw. therefore even with 20 Hazards, due to Destiny flips, you can go through a long game and never have them all go off.

Thought? Comments?
 
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Jefferson Krogh
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Re: My idea fr the Hazard Deck
I dunno -- seems like you would end up with a number of Hazard cards that you could totally avoid just by knowing what color to play.

How many of the Destiny cards in each color have the hazard warning? One? I get the feeling that the mechanic will be pretty simple -- see hazard warning. Draw hazard card. Follow instructions.

What I really want to know is if they'll mix in a reverse cone with this Hazards deck, or not...
 
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Chris O
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You can't avoid it because you flip them over at the same time and both decks are shuffled, you can't plan anything out. Think of it as like 2 destiny decks.

Both are face down, you don't know the next destiny flip and you don't know the next hazard. Flipping both together or destiny first then hazard means you could have a 28 card hazard deck to match destiny and never see half of them take effect in most games. The color triggers are on the TEXT side of the hazard, where it tells you what to do if the shown color were flipped in destiny.

I think it is better because now a hazard is not a guarantee every encounter, making it more of a "hazard" and less of an expected annoyance. Hazards should have 2 color "triggers" and not 3 now that I look at it, otherwise with all the various possible combos you'd probably have 50+ hazard cards.

There would be EXACTLY 28 Hazard cards based on color combos:

1 red/orange
2 red/yellow
3 red/green
4 red/blue
5 red/purple
6 red/special
7 red/wild
8 orange/yellow
9 orange/green
10 orange/blue
11 orange/purple
12 orange/special
13 orange/wild
14 yellow/green
15 yellow/blue
16 yellow/purple
17 yellow/special
18 yellow/wild
19 green/blue
20 green/purple
21 green/special
22 green/wild
23 blue/purple
24 blue/special
25 blue/wild
26 purple/special
27 purple/wild
28 special/wild - The absolute harshest hazard would be this one, because of the rarity of it ever appearing.

Hazards with the wild or special destiny trigger would be harsher than color/color because of the less often trigger. Every time a new player color/system is added, that adds in another 8 hazard cards to the deck for 7th player, and 9 for the 8th, 10 for 9th, etc.

As for what the hazards would entail, here are some examples, since I don't currently have a mock-up card present (but I will once I get back to my own computer :


HAZARD

Meteor Storm

A sudden gravitational shift has caused nearby orbiting meteors to fall onto the defensive player's planet.

Remove all but 1 ship from every player who has a colony on a planet of your choice in the defensive player's system to the warp.

Activates on: Green/Purple


HAZARD

Cosmic Gas Cloud

Due to the highly flammable and explosive gases surrounding some of the area in which this encounter takes place, it is recommended that minimal ordnance is used.

You must play your lowest attack card this encounter. Otherwise, you must negotiate. If you play an attack card higher than 10, send all your ships involved in the encounter to the warp.

Activates on: Yellow/Blue


HAZARD

Insurrection!

A secret society within your ranks has rebelled. They have been put down, but not without losses.

Discard 3 attack cards, and send 6 of your ships from any colonies of your choice to the warp. For each attack card you are unable to discard, send 2 more of your ships to the Warp.

Activates on: Red/Special


HAZARD

Dampening Field

A strange field of negative ions is shielding the opposing planet. We are unable to penetrate it with our advanced technology.

You are unable to use artifacts or flares this encounter.

Activates on: Orange/Purple

Thoughts, Comments? (I'll get some mock-ups soon enough to show wht I mean in grat detail)
 
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Jack Reda
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Re: My idea fr the Hazard Deck
Sounds like a fun spin on the Hazard concept. Keep at it!
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Jefferson Krogh
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Re: My idea fr the Hazard Deck
Messianic wrote:
You can't avoid it because you flip them over at the same time and both decks are shuffled, you can't plan anything out. Think of it as like 2 destiny decks.


You misunderstand -- you can't avoid the hazard deck, but you can avoid specific Hazard cards if nobody is playing those colors. If people really hate the "Cosmic Gas Cloud" card, then they just make sure that nobody takes yellow or blue as player colors.

That means you have to be really really careful designing these cards so that the colors used in the game don't cause wild variations in the severity of the hazards.
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Chris O
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Re: My idea fr the Hazard Deck
There are 5 colors to play with, 6 with incursion.

Playing without 1 color (4 players, 5 with Incursion) doesn't limit any number of hazards, however 7 of them will only have 50% of their normal chance of occurring because the other trigger color is missing.

Playing without 2 colors (3 players, 4 with Incursion) limits you to having access to 27 of the 28 cards, with 10 of them now only having a 50% of their normal chance of occurring because the other trigger is missing.

Any more colors missing than that is pointless to play Cosmic unless you have Incursion, which limits you to 25 of the 28 Hazard cards, and 18 of them having the 50% chance of going off.

So in all honesty I don't think you are missing too much, and unless you memorize the hazards, the scenario doesn't come up.

As for crazy variations, the wild/color and special/color hazard cards have a doubly harsh hazard, while the unique wild/special will have something that will make the person who actually flipped it wish the game would just start over. So there is a sense of rarity = harshness to these card for semblance of balance.

I should have some mock-ups later on today in normal hours.



EDIT: Wow I just realized what you meant by "Hazard Symbols". I noticed them on some cards as a bit or colored rings around the normal colored circle area in the areas of some cards. I noticed there is only one per color, and none for special or wild destiny. This means in a game with 3/4/5/6 players there will be 3/4/5/6 possible hazard cards appearing in a run through the pile out of the 14/17/20/23 total. This means for each player in the game the following chances of a hazard appearing in a given destiny flip are like so:

3: 21.4%
4: 23.5%
5: 25%
6: 26.1%
(7: 26.9%)
(8: 27.5%)

I am wondering if my idea at all makes sense anymore...
I'll get back to this later.
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Just a Bill
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Messianic wrote:
28 special/wild - The absolute harshest hazard would be this one, because of the rarity of it ever appearing.

Actually, from a statistical perspective this combination will (probably) occur more than any other.

Special/Wild has five triggers, the same as ColorX/Wild, ColorY/Wild, etc. ColorX/ColorY has six triggers in some games, but only three triggers in other games (and sometimes zero). I don't know how you planned to handle somebody re-drawing destiny because they got their own color, but if it was to ignore the first draw then this would also slightly decrease the frequency of all the color-based combinations and slightly elevate Special/Wild (which are never redrawn).

The only combination that has five triggers in every possible game is Special/Wild.

Messianic wrote:
EDIT: Wow I just realized what you meant by "Hazard Symbols".

Yeah, hazards really should be something that happens only when those symbols come up. This keeps it relatively balanced at once per player (as defense) per tour through the destiny deck.
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Chris O
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I guess then for my Hazard variant having the hazard symbol come up would mean that you MUST activate the flipped hazard card with it no matter whether symbols match or not.

This would increase Hazard occurrences quite a bit though.

It is likely though that FFG will just have a deck of like 20-30 cards that get flipped when hazard symbol comes up and that's that.
 
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Jefferson Krogh
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Messianic wrote:
It is likely though that FFG will just have a deck of like 20-30 cards that get flipped when hazard symbol comes up and that's that.


I'd be shocked if they did anything different.
 
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