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Cosmic Encounter: Cosmic Incursion» Forums » Rules

Subject: The x0 Kicker rss

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Craig Heintz
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Why is there a kicker that multiplies your card by Zero? You can multiply your attack, your compensation received, or your opponents ships lost due to a failed deal. Wouldn't an x 0 be bad in ALL of these scenarios with the exception of the three negative effects. Why is the card included in the defensive rewards deck? It seems 100% worthless.
 
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Jordan Browne
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Scare tactics is one obvious reason. Your opponent sees you playing a Kicker and doesn't know what the multiplier is until the cards are revealed, he may change his tactics when playing his card. Playing it on one of the new negative cards will actually make the card have a higher value (0 instead of, say -7). Multiplying your compensation by zero is sometimes a good idea if all you have to play in your hand are negotiates and you don't want more cards because either you are about to draw a whole new hand (and you don't want to risk getting more encounter cards that you have to burn through) or you know your opponent doesn't have any good cards in his hand to take.
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Big Head Zach
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Also, if you're stuck with high Attack cards against Anti-Matter or an Upset-declaring Loser, this gives you a fighting chance.
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Adam McLean
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And there may be times when you getting compensation could hurt your hand ... it would be a good one to throw when you know you'll lose but don't want to add any more cards to your hand.
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Ian Redford
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To add to the list of unlikely scenarios:

You're playing against Masochist, who's almost guaranteed to play a negotiate in order to lose ships. You play a negotiate with the x0 kicker so that you enter a deal, but Masochist loses no ships to the warp if the deal fails!
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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As mentioned, some powers would love the 0 kicker (i.e. Loser, Antimatter, etc). Sometimes it's great for bluffing the opponent (for example, I'm the Deuce, I lay a kicker and two cards (though only the first card is kicked), that's a lot of firepower so the opponent is encouraged to dump his Negotiate). It doesn't hurt if you never find that moment to play it, so have fun with it.

I love the lower cards, they just add a great element to the game.

-shnar
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Ken H.
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Rosco Shagnasty wrote:
It seems 100% worthless.


So based on the responses, it's only 99% worthless.
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Warren Denning
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Its also a trick to get people to try to steal it from your hand (after all its back is different). They think they are getting a good Rewards card when in fact its X0. Thus saving your Cosmic Zap.
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Just a Bill
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No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
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bioball wrote:
Its also a trick to get people to try to steal it from your hand (after all its back is different). They think they are getting a good Rewards card when in fact its X0.

I guess so, but that would be true of any worthless piece of crap card with the appropriate card back; even a blank. I think the OP is asking what's the value of the card beyond that.

Rubric wrote:
So based on the responses, it's only 99% worthless.

I actually like the card a little more than that (and agree with the earlier answers), but that is pretty funny.

A related question might be why they only included two x2 kickers. Eon had three, and that was even in the context of a smaller cosmic deck. I was halfway expecting Incursion to have four x2's, but there's only so much you can fit in a 32-card deck. Still, this is all good and I'm very happy they ignored the goofy Mayfair kickers (x1, x-1, x-2).

I was also a bit surprised that there were only four rifts. Is that enough for the disincentive effect to have legs? I can't quite decide if a 12.5% chance of losing 4 ships is enough to deter me from stealing your reward-back card. I guess the fact that the answer is not obvious means they probably balanced it about right. Can't wait to corral enough players to find out for real! (And I do like how this is a little boost for Zombie and Masochist.)
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Luke O'Hearn
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I've strated a thread at the FFg forums about the various uses for negative and zero cards. I'd enjoy some views and input.

http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?e...

Bill Martinson wrote:
(And I do like how this is a little boost for Zombie and Masochist.)


True, but mostly rifts are Masochist's bane - they will be played against more tan stolen by Masochist.
 
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Luke O'Hearn
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Rubric wrote:
Rosco Shagnasty wrote:
It seems 100% worthless.


So based on the responses, it's only 99% worthless.


The aliens which love this card (baring any I've overlooked) are:

Loser
Anti Matter
Ethic
Spiff
Philanthropist
Hate
Masochist.

That's 10% of the alien pool, and at least one of these will show up in over 31% of five player games. I haven't looked through the Flares for effects which would like x0, but I'd think there's a good chance there are some.

 
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Just a Bill
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crimhead wrote:
Philanthropist
Hate

I don't think so. It would always be better for these powers to have one of the (more flexible) nonzero kickers:

Philanthropist, even if he has his Super flare, can't force anyone to use it because it's not an encounter card.

Hate, when using his power, gets nothing from the x0 that he doesn't just as easily get from the x2 or x3. (It's true that Hate loves kickers in general, but the OP was looking for examples where the zero is better than the others.)
 
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Toomai Glittershine
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Bill Martinson wrote:
Hate, when using his power, gets nothing from the x0 that he doesn't just as easily get from the x2 or x3. (It's true that Hate loves kickers in general, but the OP was looking for examples where the zero is better than the others.)
If Hate uses his power on a x2 or x3, then he's wasted a pretty good card, despite everyone getting whacked (unless they have the x0 to throw out). On the other hand, if he uses the x0, he's tossed a not-very-useful card in exchange for everyone else feeing significant pain. It's not majestically better, but it's still better.
 
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Luke O'Hearn
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Bill Martinson wrote:


Hate, when using his power, gets nothing from the x0 that he doesn't just as easily get from the x2 or x3.


Toomai Glittershine wrote:
If Hate uses his power on a x2 or x3, then he's wasted a pretty good card, despite everyone getting whacked (unless they have the x0 to throw out). On the other hand, if he uses the x0, he's tossed a not-very-useful card in exchange for everyone else feeing significant pain. It's not majestically better, but it's still better.


Bill is correct, for Hate's power x0 is not better than x2 or x3. It's more efficient because for Hate because it has a lower opportunity cost, but using weaker resources more efficiently doesn't make the resources stronger. For Hate, x3 is better because it works with his power OR as a regular kicker.


Bill Martinson wrote:
(It's true that Hate loves kickers in general, but the OP was looking for examples where the zero is better than the others.)


Well, for that matter x2 is never better than x3 either. The OP said the card seems
Rosco Shagnasty wrote:
100% worthless.
The fact that Hate loves kickers in general by itself gives this card some worth.

 
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Just a Bill
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No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
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crimhead wrote:
The fact that Hate loves kickers in general by itself gives this card some worth.

Right; nobody's doubting that. But I (perhaps incorrectly) interpreted the basic premise behind the OP's question to be essentially, why include a x0 instead of, say, another x2? Anti-Matter, Loser, etc. provide good answers to this particular (implied) question, whereas Hate does not. That's all I'm saying.
 
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Jeff Finazzo
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I would have loved this in my last game when my only encounter card was a Negotiate. Had to take compensation and picked up a single encounter card which caused to to lose my second encounter of my turn.

I agree it's a very situational card.
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Brian Hoare
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Rosco Shagnasty wrote:
Why is there a kicker that multiplies your card by Zero?


Because x0 is more interesting than x1.
 
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Luke O'Hearn
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Bill Martinson wrote:

Right; nobody's doubting that. But I (perhaps incorrectly) interpreted the basic premise behind the OP's question to be essentially, why include a x0 instead of, say, another x2? Anti-Matter, Loser, etc. provide good answers to this particular (implied) question, whereas Hate does not. That's all I'm saying.


I think OP was saying two things: one, playing this as a kicker never helps, and two, therefore the zero kicker is useless. So he is refuted because x0 can bes sometimes better than a kicker, and because this card is useless besides that.
 
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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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It's also to provide incentive for you to take your rewards from the main deck sometimes. The Rewards Deck can help you or hurt you.
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Luke O'Hearn
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That's true - they didn't want the decision to choose reward cards to be automatic. There's no strategy to it that way. So we need cards which, while not useless, are situational at best.
 
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