Recommend
6 
 Thumb up
 Hide
26 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » BoardGameGeek Related » BGG Suggestions

Subject: Flawed recommendation system? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
James Ludlow
United States
Saint Louis Park
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What you're asking for is an extremely difficult problem to solve. Companies like Netflix and Amazon spend millions of dollars trying to crack this problem.

For example, your proposed algorithm is highly flawed. Hansa Teutonica and Ticket to Ride are both set collection games with route/network building. It doesn't make any sense to recommend one because of the other, and it's unlikely that adding a couple more mechanics in common between the two would change things.

Mikko Saari wrote a tool that finds other users who rate games similarly to you. Starting with that list, you can find out what games they like and get ideas of games that you might like as well. I know it's not exactly what you're looking for, but it's a good place to start browsing potential new titles.

http://www.lautapeliopas.fi/bgg/
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Petersen
United States
St. Louis Park
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Good suggestion, James. The last time I used that tool was years ago and I had to scrounge to find games to rate to have the minimum 75 ratings. Now I have over 600, so you would think I might come up with some better correlation data.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
A Derk appears from the mists...
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
I would *love* to solve this particular issue (especially if it didn't involve spending millions of dollars). I too am a bit frustrated with the current system, but I respect the guy who did it (he's smarter than I am by a fair bit).
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Duff
Canada
Ottawa
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Is "similar mechanics" really what folks are looking for in recommendations? That's the last thing I'd want.

If I love Caylus, and I'm looking for further recommendations, then what I want are a list of games that rate highly with other Caylus lovers. That could be anything, a dice game, a card game, a race game, whatever.

Giving me a list of other "deep, low luck, worker placement" games is just giving me what I already have in Caylus.

Giving me a list of highly rated games by others will give me games that overlap in mechanics *as well as* those that don't.
10 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Cain
United States
Tacoma
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
The Evil-Do That I Do-Do
Avatar
mbmbmb
I would say a good starting spot for supporting such an endevor would be here:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/324264/analogical-modeli...

This is the closest tool I have found that predicts with a good deal of accuracy whether or not I will like a game.

If this was supported, and kept in house on BGG I would be greatly appreciative, and I think many other users would find it helpful as well.

Certainly more than the current system.

LA
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Jome
United States
Franklin
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mb
If we were really going to do this, perhaps the best metric would be some combination of game weight with frequency of play. Frequency of play would indicate that the game is very popular, the primary gaming choice of the people who play it. That seems like a fairly good indicator that a game is good. If you add into it the number of people owning copies and some more complex data like the average plays per unit time or length of ownership, that would help to improve it even more. Results modified by game weight help to push the thousands of games of Magic or Chess that are played against the very few games od Die Macher or Civilization.

And why won't this work? Because we have no good data about things like how many people own what copies of what games and how often they play them. When you can get every user on the site to religiously log their collections and games, seriously think about game weight, and provide a host of other data, then perhaps we can get some serious science done...

But, until then, we have a system where you see listed the games that users who rated that game highly also rated highly. That's a pretty good recommendation - if you love it, you'll probably like these other things too.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nikki Ebright
United States
Centennial
Colorado (CO)
flag msg tools
badge
New Avatar! So much Excite! Photo credit to Debbie Ohi, who is Awesome!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What about creating a side along system where BGG users create recommendations?

There could be a link somewhere on the game page, like Ticket to Ride, that would allow me to search for other games that I, as a gamer, would think that others would like, like TtR 1910, and I could rank that by how much I think others would like it, even possibly using the same system now - Strong, Medium, Weak, etc.

It could be a way to utilize the collective knowledge of us BGG'ers to benefit each other.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pablo Santangelo
Argentina
Miami
Florida
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Amazon´s style works great for me:
"other users who looked at this item also looked:
List List list list"

We could have "other users who favorited/played/wishlisted this item also liked:"
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Reed
United Kingdom
Southampton
Hampshire
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I did some investigation into this a while ago and reported my findings of the time in a couple of geeklists / images.

The first was an analysis of inter-game linkings based on the current BGG recommendations system - it gave an interesting Gaming Spectrum, but a heck of a lot of highly ranked games (for example, 8 of the top 10) didn't even make an appearance (possibly because of self-imposed constraints of what I was trying). It did however highlight an interesting spectrum of game types.

My second analysis ignored the BGG recommendations entirely. I got the list of all the copper+ reviewers on this site (those that have made some public effort to justify their review opinions), and scraped all their ratings. Based on what games they liked (details included in the list) I then created a game inter-linking chart which produced an interesting 2D Map Of GameLand. Whilst some of the linkings were decidely dubious, they didn't seem any more so than the current recommendations. And on top of that, a lot more of the highly ranked games were present.

I don't think either system is a perfect solution for recommendations, of course - I just found the analysis interesting...
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Mierz
United States
Middletown
Connecticut
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There's also a "Similarly Rated" link on each game, in the Statistics section. For instance, you can see the highest-rated games for, say, people who rated Dominion between 9 and 10 at http://boardgamegeek.com/collection/similar/thing/36218 (unsurprisingly, Intrigue and Seaside top the list). I usually forget about this feature, but it's kind of neat.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
msg tools
derk wrote:
I would *love* to solve this particular issue (especially if it didn't involve spending millions of dollars). I too am a bit frustrated with the current system, but I respect the guy who did it (he's smarter than I am by a fair bit).


I suspect the problem is actually fairly easy to solve. My guess is that Matthew's algorithms just don't account for the tremendous growth of BGG, which necessitates basing the strength of the recommendation on the number of related data points, rather than the percentage of related data points once a minimum level has been achieved.

(BTW, as I understand it the current system uses user ratings, so that it acts, in some sense, as an _automated_ way of collecting user recommendations, rather than relying upon users to make the recommendations themselves.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Here is something I was working on a couple years ago

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/26731/game-recommendat...

I am working on a huge "visual recommendation" system of games with more than 100 ratings. Unfortunately, the real-world is working me over right now, so progress is slow.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Katsoufis
Greece
Athens
Attiki
flag msg tools
badge
Do you seriously believe that BGG ratings matter that much?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Why not have a system with user input?
You could have users propose recommended games and the other users would vote for the validity of those propositions.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
A Derk appears from the mists...
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
We should do a contest... ninja
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Bryce
United Kingdom
Reading
Berkshire
flag msg tools
I currently have a PS3, PS2, Wii, XBox 360 and an Amiga 1200 all connected to my TV
badge
HMS Astute on Sea Trials
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This was puzzling me too. I have just picked up Twilight Struggle Deluxe and was a bit surprised to see 1960: The Making of the President which is set in the same era and uses the same game mechanic as only a 'Weak' recommendation.

I think that some mixture of users having the ability to make recommendations and some automated system whereby linkages are made between games which the same user rates highly might do the trick.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Manchuwok
Canada
Mission
BC
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TimMierz wrote:
There's also a "Similarly Rated" link on each game, in the Statistics section. For instance, you can see the highest-rated games for, say, people who rated Dominion between 9 and 10 at http://boardgamegeek.com/collection/similar/thing/36218 (unsurprisingly, Intrigue and Seaside top the list). I usually forget about this feature, but it's kind of neat.


I use this feature a lot, but wish that it was improved on to allow multiple criteria. That would make it the best tool on the whole site.

Better Similarly Rated feature: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/4025476
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John W
United States
Sacramento
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Piscatella wrote:
Why not have a system with user input?
You could have users propose recommended games and the other users would vote for the validity of those propositions.
ummm.. BGG already HAD that exact system - and it worked great.

I am baffled to this day why this fact is never brought up, why it isn't more known, and why it hasn't already been re-implemented - it would be trivial effort to put it back, since the system-generated Recommendations has been such an abject failure for so long.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Old & Chaotic Evil Bob
United States
Plainville
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
I'm not the Admin you are looking for
badge
O&CE Bob has Retired as a Geek Admin
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
posting to try and make this subscription go away devil
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
☆ ✧ ☆ ✧ ☆
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Looking at these stars suddenly dwarfed my own troubles and all the gravities of terrestrial life. I thought of their unfathomable distance, and the slow inevitable drift of their movements out of the unknown past into the unknown future. H.G. Wells
badge
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. Chief Seattle
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Posting to subscribe.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Alden
United States
Dallas
Texas
flag msg tools
admin
badge
Aldie's Full of Love!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
stargate wrote:
posting to try and make this subscription go away devil


Bob isn't being snarky - he really is stuck

I want to come back to the recommendation system for sure. There's a TON of features that are on the back burner right now until the redesign is done.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Old & Chaotic Evil Bob
United States
Plainville
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
I'm not the Admin you are looking for
badge
O&CE Bob has Retired as a Geek Admin
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Aldie wrote:
stargate wrote:
posting to try and make this subscription go away devil


Bob isn't being snarky - he really is stuck

I want to come back to the recommendation system for sure. There's a TON of features that are on the back burner right now until the redesign is done.


I had the same problem on another thread
posting gets me beyond the subscription
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John W
United States
Sacramento
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Aldie wrote:
stargate wrote:
posting to try and make this subscription go away devil


Bob isn't being snarky - he really is stuck

I want to come back to the recommendation system for sure. There's a TON of features that are on the back burner right now until the redesign is done.
How long would it take for you to put back those few boxes that you had back in 2006 or so?

You did a great job with it back then - it was in the perfect spot on the gamepage, it was simple, intuitive, and people were using it for great results.

And with 20 times the users you had in 2006 (a total guess), it should be populated with reliable results within a month, I'd predict.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Are you aware of the dangers foxes pose to you and
Sweden
flag msg tools
Help, I'm being held prisoner in an overtext typing facility! I don't have much time, they could find out at any m
badge
I'm that weirdo whose number of badges sold prior to yesterday Bail Organa is keeping track of
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Rathke wrote:
Amazon´s style works great for me:
"other users who looked at this item also looked:
List List list list"


It would just say Busen Memo for everything.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.