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John Prados' Third Reich» Forums » Rules

Subject: Italy Surrenders!!! rss

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Ian Buttridge
United States
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OK, in our current game the Italian / German player rolled a snake eyes and Italy surrendered.

Some Questions:

1) Greece had changed sides and was an ally of Italy. As far as we can tell it remains fighting against the allies.....It will be controlled by Germany but not an ally of Germany as all other influence chits were removed when it became an Italian ally. Note this helped bring the Turks in on the ally side and they are knocking on the Greeks door.

2) Yugoslavia had been conquered by Italy. It now reverts to a neutral nation. It's force pool is down to nothing as most units where permanetly removed from play when it was conquered by italy, so if someone moves against it they only have to walk into the capitol. Is this correct?

3) German Units in Italy: The allies have a beachhead in Southern france and because Yugo went neutral it looks like the German Units in there can not be SR'ed out or receive re-inforcements. Note that it's winter and if Germany had any BRP left they could use an attrition chit to move into Rome and conquer Italy....??!!!??however as they are negative the US will walk into Rome first.

4) Territory - it says in the rules that the last unit to move through a hex retains ownership. This means that any territory that the Germans move through before Italy surrendered is German territory? In particular this counts as who owns which city in Italy for the chance for the Germans to form a facist state?

Observations:

The Russian breathed a big sigh of relieve, as the Italian armor had been upgraded and was giving them fits in the east....

One important thing that we had missed in our game is that France can't receive BRPs once a german unit is next to Paris. This allowed France to receive BRPS and last much longer in both our games.

The US can really punish the Germans in winter if their BRP goes negative.......which with 30-40 SAC going there way each turn is very difficult to prevent.

The Japanese can really punish India via the same as the UK has trouble keeping it's BRP positive in a two front war.



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Robin Lapinou
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1/ When a minor becomes ally to a major power, you must remove all the markers of the powers at war with the major it allies to, not the others. So in that case, German marker shold still be there, and has moved by one box per turn into the 10 box, since Germany was allied to Italy. So Greece should now be allied to Germany.
(and the turkish army is a really little threat isn't it ? it's more their location that is a problem)

2/ Correct. But how were the units removed from play? I think when you conquer the country, its units are not permanently removed, they come back in the force as soon as it's freed. But there is problem with the rules about that : the surrender segment occurs after the supply one, which means for a minor country with only one supply source (most of them), all of their units must be out of supply and die BEFORE surrender. This might be a mistake in the rules, otherwise you can never apply the switching side rule, since there is no more unit to change side.

3/ Yes apparently they cannot SR in or out, according to the rules. So you need to use impulses to cross the Alps, and send reinforcements. This has been discussed somewhere else in that forum, I personnaly think SR should be allowed through the Alps, as it has always been well equiped, not like turkish mountains.
I am not sure but I think the BRPs from Italy go to the power controling Rome, so yes it is always a good idea to preventively put some German infantry in key cities in Italy before it surrenders.

4/ Yes, though it could be difficult to keep track of which hex has been entered.

Obs :

Yes having negative BRPs is not a good think , and that is the basis of US strategy
France is really likely to surrender quikly anyway if German units are camping in sight of the Tour Eiffel...
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