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Subject: A couple questions about Dungeon 35 The pull of the depths rss

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Rob Bradley
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At the beginning of hte overlords turn each hero gets pulled toward the closest pit.

If the Overlord player plays a spiked pit trap, would this trap be eligable for pulling heros to the closest pit.

After that trap is placed, does it then act like the other pits on the level? i.e., poison 2 or is it a normal pit, or is it a spiked pit?
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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We played that no, being pulled did not trigger a trap based on Movement, since well, they didn't move. In other words, if the hero didn't spend Movement Points, then the trap couldn't be played.

I think though that it might truly depend on the wording of the trap card. Does it say when a hero "enters" a square or when he "moves into" a square?

As for the new pit, we treated it like a normal pit, though I could see it being argued either way (i.e. all pits, even ones that open up, in this level are poisoned. Just because the heroes can't see the "trap" pit doesn't mean it's suddenly not poisoned anymore).

-shnar
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Rob Bradley
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OK Thnaks.

Let us say duringthe hero turn the overlord played the spiked pit trap on a hero.

Since the trapped pit stays in the dungeon, is that new pit eligable for pulling heros toward, or only the pits that started the level?
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Like I said, I could see it argued both ways. I think we played that only the original pits dragged heroes.

-shnar
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Spacehulk wrote:
At the beginning of hte overlords turn each hero gets pulled toward the closest pit.

If the Overlord player plays a spiked pit trap, would this trap be eligable for pulling heros to the closest pit.

After that trap is placed, does it then act like the other pits on the level? i.e., poison 2 or is it a normal pit, or is it a spiked pit?


The Pull of the Depths
At the start of the overlord's turn, each hero moves one space towards the nearest pit. If two or more pits are equally distant, the overlord chooses which pit the hero moves towards. Any figure who falls into a pit on this level suffers 2 wounds (ignoring armour) from a Poison attack.
... stuff about Meladon including a telekinesis like ability that will allow him to move heroes into pits.


The ability just references pits. Once a pit trap has been played and resolved, it leaves behind a pit obstacle that is exactly the same as any other pit obstacles.
When played as a trap, a new pit will immediate resolve as the trap card says (ie not poisoned unless it is a treachery poison spiked pit). However, once it has been resolved it merely becomes a pit token which is identical to any other pit token on the level - ie the new pit will pull heroes and cause 2 points of poison damage instead on 1 point of non-poison damage.

As an aside, it is evident throughout the Descent rules, though not specifically written, that there is no 'memory state' required (ie, these two pit tokens have different effects because one is old and one is new so we must remember the differences). There is always a marker or token of some sort for any effect so that you as a player do not need to remember things.
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Corbon Loughnan
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shnar wrote:
We played that no, being pulled did not trigger a trap based on Movement, since well, they didn't move. In other words, if the hero didn't spend Movement Points, then the trap couldn't be played.

I think though that it might truly depend on the wording of the trap card. Does it say when a hero "enters" a square or when he "moves into" a square?

As for the new pit, we treated it like a normal pit, though I could see it being argued either way (i.e. all pits, even ones that open up, in this level are poisoned. Just because the heroes can't see the "trap" pit doesn't mean it's suddenly not poisoned anymore).

-shnar


Sorry Shnar, that is not in any way relevant.

Pits on the ground are not Traps, they are obstacles. Figures falling into the pits on this level are not triggering a trap, they are suffering from the effects of obstacles.

And there is no rules argument for treating new pits (that came from trap cards, after the trap has been resolved) as different. The only argument is 'it seemed right' which is not a rules or logic basis for arguing one way over another.
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Retired Hurt

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The "no need to keep track of past" argument is powerful, but is it always right ?

Say the heroes explored the area behind a door, then left it, then a poltergeist slammed the door (vanilla descent, of course).
Now, you have to remember this when using rules that distinguish between already-explored and unexplored areas, for example the one about door-opening abilities of main monsters.
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Merrimac wrote:
The "no need to keep track of past" argument is powerful, but is it always right ?

Say the heroes explored the area behind a door, then left it, then a poltergeist slammed the door (vanilla descent, of course).
Now, you have to remember this when using rules that distinguish between already-explored and unexplored areas, for example the one about door-opening abilities of main monsters.


Well, firstly it was an aside, not actually part of the main argument.

With rooms/areas, when one has been explored everything in it will be laid down, so unless the area has no glyphs or obstacles, there will always be something still around in the room showing it has been explored.

I checked DJitD quest guide and there is not a single area that does not have either a glyph or obstacles, except for final rooms with boss monsters and at that stage the point is more or less moot.
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James McMurray
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Merrimac wrote:
The "no need to keep track of past" argument is powerful, but is it always right ?


No, as evidenced by the Bridge of Death dungeon level in RtL. That one also has pits with special rules, but they specifically only apply to pits on one of the tiles, and do not apply to new ones.
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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James McMurray wrote:
Merrimac wrote:
The "no need to keep track of past" argument is powerful, but is it always right ?


No, as evidenced by the Bridge of Death dungeon level in RtL. That one also has pits with special rules, but they specifically only apply to pits on one of the tiles, and do not apply to new ones.


Still applies there. The special pits in this dungeon are printed onto the card (there is a particular 4x4 piece just for this dungeon) and are not tokens. So they are obviously different and you don't need a memory state applied to them.
 
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