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Subject: Decisions ! Decisions ? rss

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juerg haeberli
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Since there are a lot of decisions for both players before and during the first ( first 2 ) game turn(s) I would like to look into a few of them.

Decisions before the first action round :

Where to set up the Persian gulf beachhead ?

Seems to be a none decision since it almost has to be set up on the Abadan beachhead space.
If you differ from this view please open a new tread with the merits and advantages of the Fao beachhead vs. the Abadan beachhead.

Do I include Russo-Brith. assault in my first card hand ?

Not so clear. Not taking it gives you max. chances for secret treaty which can be a boon or a pain if you get it depending on your cards and how your opponent plays. Will be further discussed during the decisions of the first turn.
Having it in the starting hand gives you more options for the first action round ( event wise and warstatus wise and guarantees that a 3 ops card (which can be played for ops or SR ) will be available.

Which card does the CP include in it's starting hand ?

Seems to be another non decision since it has to be Panturkismus. Seems to be the best card against the alternate and maybe the first action round secret treaty opening.

After you have drawn your starting hand you could check for the following things.

Allies

Do I have a combat card ?

Very important because if you dont you will not draw all 7 remaining cards for your second hand.
This can have some serious consequences on what you are playing.
If you dont have Blockade or Churchill there is a chance you will not get them on turn 2 so be careful about your war status.

If you have one the next question might be do you have secret treaty ?

Here we have 4 possible scenarios which depend on your and the CP hand.

a) You have secret treaty, the CP doesen't have Persian push.
b) You don't have secret treaty and the CP doesen't have PP either.
c) You have secret treaty an the CP has PP.
d) You don't have secret treaty but the CP has PP.

Since you don't know the CP cards this becomes a little guessing game but there are some interesting points.

Scenarios a + b are similar because you will be the first in neutral Persia. Either in turn 1 or 2.

In scenario d the CP will be the first in neutral Persia except it decides for whatever reason not to go first.

Scenario c will be a true race for neutral Persia if both sides are interested.

Now depending of your hand cards you will decide on your first turn plans.

If you have a very event heavy hand (Blockade, Kitchner, Churchill, Russian reinforcements,
R/B assault for example ) you might decide to play the standard opening.

If you have secret treaty and some ops cards, ( all combat cards, keep in mind you need one to play as cc or trow it away end of turn ) other cards you dont need absolutely as events, you might go for a first turn secret treaty or the alternate opening.
If you don't have secret treaty but some ops cards it might be a good idea to bluff and start with the alternate opening anyway.

This is it for today. As always comments and other ideas are apreciated.

 
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Kristian Thy
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haeberich wrote:
Do I include Russo-Brith. assault in my first card hand ?

Not so clear. Not taking it gives you max. chances for secret treaty which can be a boon or a pain if you get it depending on your cards and how your opponent plays. Will be further discussed during the decisions of the first turn.
Having it in the starting hand gives you more options for the first action round ( event wise and warstatus wise and guarantees that a 3 ops card (which can be played for ops or SR ) will be available.


I wouldn't take it. I'd rather maximize my chances of getting Blockade.
 
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Jason Johns
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Actually, even before the Russo-British card, you have to decide if you're using the 8 card hand option. If so, some of the other heartache goes away...
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juerg haeberli
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I wouldn't take it. I'd rather maximize my chances of getting Blockade.[/q]

Now thats interesting.
I don't like Blockade in my first hand. It's a must play event and usually gets in the way with all the other things you have to do during the first turn.

I always play with the 7 card hand. More intense game this way.....
 
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Borat Sagdiyev
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haeberich wrote:

I always play with the 7 card hand. More intense game this way.....


+1
 
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Philip Thomas
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haeberich wrote:

Quote:
I wouldn't take it. I'd rather maximize my chances of getting Blockade.


Now thats interesting.
I don't like Blockade in my first hand. It's a must play event and usually gets in the way with all the other things you have to do during the first turn.

I always play with the 7 card hand. More intense game this way.....


Well, if you don't play Blockade on turn 1 you are conceding an additional 3 TU RPs to the Max RP limit.

However, I suspect Kristian meant "maximise my chances of getting Blockade in the first 2 turns". As you say, if you don't get a CC in your first hand then a card will be left at the bottom of the deck. By not taking Russo-British Assault you increase your odds of drawing a CC.
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Kristian Thy
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Actually, I'd like to get Blockade on my first hand. Letting the CP get one or two RP plays in on turn one hurts a lot down the road.

(And I'm also in favour of playing with the 7-card hand.)
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juerg haeberli
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[q="turbothy"]Actually, I'd like to get Blockade on my first hand. Letting the CP get one or two RP plays in on turn one hurts a lot down the road.


Thats interesting Kristian,

Do you think the longterm effect of 2-3 free CP replacments outweighs the board position / tactical
options you gain if you don't have to play the Blockade event and the CP play of a replacement card in turn one ?

What do I have to do to separate the quote from my text ? blush
 
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Kristian Thy
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Those RPs (and if I'm CP and has the chance, you can bet I'll play Indian Mutiny for 4 TU RPs) on turn 1 means a two-turn extension on when the Turks have to start eliminating units due to Turkish War Weariness. That can hurt the CP a lot, or it can matter little according to the tactical situation down the road.

If you've already beaten the CP to be first into Persia, he has little to do in Turn 1 except consolidate Mesopotamia. Two RP plays can easily be absorbed by the depleted Turks in the starting position, and means that the effects of TWW are delayed even further.

Then again, based on my current win:loss ratio I wouldn't necessarily take my words as gospel

(To separate the quote from your answer, type your response after the [ /q ] at the end.)
 
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juerg haeberli
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In how many games did you beat the CP to be first in neutral Persia as the Allies ?
Condition that a game counts would be a first action round play of Panturkism by the CP with which he places the Jengali and closes the road into neutral Persia.
Please tell me you found a way to do this consistently since I am still trying to work out the best way to beat the CP as the allies.
 
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Kristian Thy
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My current trial CP tactic (inspired by Philip inflicting it on me) is to not play Persian Push at all so as to force the AP to play Secret Treaty for the Jihad. He's going to need Persia if he is to have any hope of keeping Russia in the fight. If the AP doesn't have the card on Turn 1, it also gives the CP longer time to position tribes in Persia for maximum effect.

I haven't kept stats, but a rough guess is that the first-into-Persia medal has been awarded fifty-fifty to both sides.
 
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Javier Muñoz
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turbothy wrote:
My current trial CP tactic (inspired by Philip inflicting it on me) is to not play Persian Push at all so as to force the AP to play Secret Treaty for the Jihad. He's going to need Persia if he is to have any hope of keeping Russia in the fight. If the AP doesn't have the card on Turn 1, it also gives the CP longer time to position tribes in Persia for maximum effect.


That is also my opinion.

The AP must play Secret treaty if he wants to open a wide front, and to take some victory locations
 
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juerg haeberli
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So far I am not very happy to not go into nP ( neutral Persia ) until the Russian revolution breaks out if the AP doesen't go. Yes if he plays secret treaty you will gain a Jihad point but you will loose it again when the AP takes the Jihad space ( Qum ? ) back. I still think as the CP I want all 3 victory spaces and the Jihadspace first in nP since they count for 2 points each. (Even if I can't hold all of them.) The AP should be able to take all these spaces first if it can decide when to go in. Maybe it has to concede a VP for an early entering of nP with the BR/In/Anz but that usually fits well with the right overall strategy.
And he gets to place a Persian Cordon unit and gets a "2" card out of his deck.

So all in all I am in favor of SRing the camels to the nP border and grabing all I can get if the opportunity presents itself.
Which it does quite often after a first turn first action round play of Panturkism.
 
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Philip Thomas
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haeberich wrote:
So far I am not very happy to not go into nP ( neutral Persia ) until the Russian revolution breaks out if the AP doesen't go. Yes if he plays secret treaty you will gain a Jihad point but you will loose it again when the AP takes the Jihad space ( Qum ? ) back. I still think as the CP I want all 3 victory spaces and the Jihadspace first in nP since they count for 2 points each. (Even if I can't hold all of them.) The AP should be able to take all these spaces first if it can decide when to go in. Maybe it has to concede a VP for an early entering of nP with the BR/In/Anz but that usually fits well with the right overall strategy.
And he gets to place a Persian Cordon unit and gets a "2" card out of his deck.

So all in all I am in favor of SRing the camels to the nP border and grabing all I can get if the opportunity presents itself.
Which it does quite often after a first turn first action round play of Panturkism.


Given you invented the Pan-Turkism defence, I'm suprised at you not realising that you can have your cake and eat it- i.e you can wait for the Allies to play Secret Treaty and still get to Qum first for the Jihad boost.

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juerg haeberli
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Ahh.....but that's not so clear.
As we analyzed before the AP may enter Neutral Persia through Arabistan and take Hamadan and block the immediate CP entrance into Neutral Persia.
Might not be that great an idea at the beginning of turn 1 but if I can time it right because the CP is not pressing ( lets say beginning of turn 2 ) I have an excellent chance to get to the 4 important spaces first. I will have to give up a VP for entering NP with the Allies early but since this gives new options to me to thats not that bad. On the other hand I will not be able to postpone the Russian revolution but how often is one sucessfull with that anyway ?
So I still think together with the arguments of my previous post it's a good idea as the CP to go for neutral Persia in turn 1 if possible or at least threaten to do it in turn 2.
 
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Philip Thomas
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We'll just have to agree to disagree then.

Postponing the Russian Revolution is quite common in my games, at least for a turn or two- and a turn or two can be crucial.
 
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Enver 4Enver
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Quote:
Which card does the CP include in it's starting hand ?


Right now I favour the Indian Muntiny. Then you're sure to either have 4 free TU-RP or that the AP doesn't go in Persia on impulse 2.
 
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Philip Thomas
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I usually take Jihad. That is the card I least want to leave at the bottom of the deck...

 
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