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Dungeon Lords» Forums » Variants

Subject: Variants for 2-Player Games / New Players rss

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David Hoffman
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Cortlandt Manor
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My wife and I play a lot of games together, just the two of us. Brass is a particular favorite, and the 2-player variant there really makes the game fun for us.

Dungeon Lords, which we both really like, comes with a great 2-player variant built in. Using the "non-player" boards, two can play a game designed for three or four and still have a tight, competitive game.

However, we've found that we have some issues with the included 2-player variant, as follows:

Our 2-Player Variant Variant

(Issue) according to the rules, a Non Player's actions should always go on the II spot. A second Non Player's action goes on the III spot. We worked with this, but found very few instances where either of us ended up on the III spot -- either the Nons filled it, or it lay empty.

(Our Solution) set up the table so "players" alternate -- Me, Non1, Her, Non2 -- then deal out Non Player action cards (either as normal, two at random, one by selection, or all three at random) and place the Minions on the board IN TURN ORDER. In this way, it is possible for one of us to get that II or III spot -- this opens the economy of the game up somewhat and makes it feel more like a four player game.

Our New-Player Variant

(Issue) In our first game, my wife found herself starving for cash. Then, having no gold, unable to get food in the next season. Yes, this could have been mitigated by different actions, but having never played before, she wasn't able to see what was happening until it was too late -- then she effectively lost 2 seasons (1/4 of the game) from one bad decision -- or would have if we hadn't come up with this:

(Our Solution) When playing Dungeon Lords with a newbie, if they ever find themselves unable to take actions or pay for something, they have the OPTION to add a red cube to their Dead Letter Office -- costing them 3 points at the end of the game -- by way of a loan. While this does hurt their final score, at least it lets them continue playing (and learning from their mistake) and doesn't ruin their first experience with the game.

I wouldn't use this on further games, but for someone's first game, when they're learning and you want them to have a good experience and want to play some more, I think this New-Player Variant can be a big help.
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kevin long
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For newbies, or if we want to actually enjoy the game: nix the 3 events all together. We go back and forth on whether we play with the 3 events or not. Those 3 events pop up once in while as very frustrating and and a real pain the rest of the time.
 
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Lacombe
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What I was hoping this thread would be about was a non-AI variant for 2p games.

We find the official 2p version to play well enough, but I personally don't really like the book-keeping of the AI or the fakeness of the non-player action that you each get to select.


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Sean McCarthy
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If you are never ending up on the III spot, maybe you missed a rule:

The third minion action is chosen by a player and goes on the I spot.

As an example, if you are going first and your opponent's neutral food minion is on the II, you can put your own neutral food minion on the I and then play onto the III. Stuff like this happens more than once each game in my experience.
 
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David Hoffman
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Page 15 of the rules (I'm looking at the PDF right now) states the following:

Quote:
Take 2 Minion Figures in this non-player color and place them on space II of the actions you just chose. If both non-player colors chose the same Orders Card, one will go on space II and the other will go on space III.


Of course, then it says:

Quote:
Once both players have chosen orders for themselves and the third order for their non-player colors, reveal the final non-player orders and put the remaining Minion Figures on space I of the indicated actions. If both plyers chose the same order, put one on space I and the other on space I of that action.


What we found was that the III space became quite inaccessible. You could get it sometimes, and maybe it was just that we weren't choosing the same things very often (different playing styles, I suppose), but it was very rare that we saw a III spot open and takable.

FWIW, I don't find fault, per se, with the printed 2-player variant. What I've posted up there is just something we're trying to see if we like it more. "Like it more" literally means, "makes it feel more like a 4-player game, which will be helpful when we're actually playing with four."
 
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Matt Smith
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I wish I had thought of your newbie variant before I played my first game. One friend made one of "those" mistakes in spring of the second year and it took him right out of the game.

Oh, and I don't think you quite understood what Sevenspirits was saying. It should be very easy to get a III spot if you want one. After the first four random minions are placed, most if not all will be on II spots, leaving the III spot open on those actions. Since you choose the third action for your robo-minion, simply choose an action where you want the III spot and voila - your minion will get the III spot. Just make sure your opponent and the other robo-minion can't choose that action, or you may get blocked out of that action.
 
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David Hoffman
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I understood him; but when we played it didn't seem to work out for us.

We're going to try our two player once or twice more, then see which way we prefer it.
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Thomas
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SevenSpirits wrote:
If you are never ending up on the III spot, maybe you missed a rule:

The third minion action is chosen by a player and goes on the I spot.

As an example, if you are going first and your opponent's neutral food minion is on the II, you can put your own neutral food minion on the I and then play onto the III. Stuff like this happens more than once each game in my experience.


I haven't played the game yet so sorry for the ignorant question but was the op playing things wrong and if so would this variant still work?
 
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