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Subject: T M Games Kingmaker rss

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jus ren
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I've put in a bid on ebay for the T M Games version of Kingmakermeeple. Reading what it says on this site, it looks like the game is the same as the revised Avalon Hill version. Following speaking to a friend at work, he says that the King & Heirs act like pawns and have no power of their own as they are controlled by the nobles. Is this true, and if it isarrrh,is there a variant rule that makes them more powerful or important. Last question, have I wasted my money? I din't put in a high maximum bid if I win
 
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Tony Farrand
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Kingmaker was an innovative game in it's day and I still enjoy it, but you need to have enough like-minded players to get the most of the game. The heirs are indeed pawns. They are captured by players' nobles and move around the board with nobles. Players can either execute heirs or keep them in custody in hopes of crowning one king. This is totally in keeping with the theme (and name) of the game. I believe there was a variant article in The General that allowed you to play the royal heirs, but I'm a bit fuzzy on that, it's been a long time! I'll post again if I come up with it...
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Neil Whyman
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The TM version has optional rules for several things that appeared as standard in the AH version. I believe the inclusion of Plantaganet nobles was one of them. Similarly with the "Captain of Calais" office, and the French mercenaries etc.

Your friend at work might be thinking of the original Ariel edition in which there was no option at all to treat any of the heirs as nobles. Nor was there any Ireland, nor any France (Calais, at that time, was English so that was on the Arield board).

My own view is that the TM edition game was just fine without using Plantaganet nobles.
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Tony Farrand
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The AH variant was in The GENERAL Vol.26,No.4. "Being Your Own King"
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H-B-G
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nwhyman wrote:
The TM version has optional rules for several things that appeared as standard in the AH version. I believe the inclusion of Plantaganet nobles was one of them. Similarly with the "Captain of Calais" office, and the French mercenaries etc.

Your friend at work might be thinking of the original Ariel edition in which there was no option at all to treat any of the heirs as nobles. Nor was there any Ireland, nor any France (Calais, at that time, was English so that was on the Arield board).

My own view is that the TM edition game was just fine without using Plantaganet nobles.


I have the AH edition and the items you mention were optional in that as well. They were not included at all in the Ariel edition, which as you say worked perfectly well without them.

While it is true to say that the heirs have no power, it not true that they aren't important as they are the entire point of the game. You win by crowning the sole surviving heir.
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Dave Dawn
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Yea, the heirs are essentially pawns. I have heard of General rules that gave more power to the heirs but I have not looked for them. If your copy (if you win it) does not include the variant events, it should at least include some blank event cards. If you would like info on the variant events send me a private email address and I will get that to you. The variant events go long way to alleviating some of the complaints against Kingmaker (IMHO).

I, of course, think you made a wise decision!

Long Live Kingmaker!

Edit: I see that in the time it took me to prepare my reply, the General info has been provided!
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jus ren
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Thank you to all you noble gentleman (too much?) for all coming back to me so quickly. You've given me a few things to think about, and I might take up your kind offer David Dawn to email me the event variant cards , if as you rightly say I win. I seem to be the only one bidding at the mo thoughmeeple. One thing's for sure it would certainly be a lot cheaper than the modern War of the Roses games, I can't see them going down in price anytime soon. Just as a historical aside, did you know that Edward IV got the throne at least as much through his own ability than just through Warwick, as was proved when he won it back again after defeating Warwick & Prince Edward of Wales (Henry VI's son and heir). A good historica lnovel for this period is Sharon Penman's "The Sunne in Spendour", although she is pro Richard III, she doesn't dismiss all his faults. In fact I like all her books, which all have a medieval theme Sorry I'll stop now, as I do go on when I get into a favourite subject. By the way thanks again for the warm welcolme guys..
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alan beaumont
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Playingup wrote:
I've put in a bid on ebay for the T M Games version of Kingmakermeeple. Reading what it says on this site, it looks like the game is the same as the revised Avalon Hill version.
The TM board is a mess, compared to the AHill version and the rules don't match the revised graphics. I worked for TM trading from 76-83 and was the Kingmaker rule answering service once their version came out. Unfortunately I think I was away at college when the graphics decisions were being blundered. (This is what happens when a non gamer graphic designer gets hold of things).
Don't despair, see if you can pick up a GIBSON's GAMES board, everything else in the TM package was OK I think.
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jus ren
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Thanks Alan, I'm a bit disappointed about the boardsurprise, but if I win the bid, I may take up your idea of buying a replacement board elsewhere.
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Dave Dawn
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Playingup wrote:
I might take up your kind offer David Dawn to email me the event variant cards


Just to be clear, I will email you information on the variant events that will enable you to convert blank event cards, not the actual cards. (I should note that most AH came with some blank event cards but I can't speak to T M.) The actual variant event cards occasionally pop up here on BGG Marketplace and usually go for around $20.
 
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jus ren
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Sorry David my mistakeblush. I'm still very grateful for your assistance in this. Does anyone know where I can get a Gibsons Board so I can follow Alan's advice, as it seems that one included in the game is a bit messycry
 
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Dave Dawn
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Playingup wrote:
Sorry David my mistakeblush.


Absolutely no problem, I just didn't want to send you my info and have you be disappointed.
 
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jus ren
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I didn't win the game, I was outbid. I wasn't prepared to pay £17 for the game & £5 for postage, when I would probably have to replace the board which would be an extra cost (Thank you Alan. I thought it was a bit high, espec. as I saw a 1976 Avalon Hill edition of Kingmaker go for less, although I was stuck on the TM version at the time. But many thanks for all the good advice guys. My friend said that he has the Ariel Gibson version in the flat box, so we might just play thatmeeple

PU.
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alan beaumont
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Where are they now?
Playingup wrote:
My friend said that he has the Ariel Gibson version in the flat box, so we might just play thatmeeple
PU.
Hopefully with the late edition rules.

Bit of trivia. As far as I know Kingmaker is the only game playtested by Melvyn Bragg. (Yes, that Melvyn Bragg!).
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Lewis Goldberg
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Boy the way Glenn Miller played // Songs that made the Hit Parade // Guys like us we had it made // Those were the days.
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Who is Melvyn Bragg, and what does TM stand for?
 
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alan beaumont
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Gaga, not Google
lgoldberg wrote:
Who is Melvyn Bragg, and what does TM stand for?
T.M. Trading was the company name behind the Avalon Hill (UK) franchise. If I ever knew what it stood for I have forgotten! (Although the M is possibly from Michael Hodge, the proprietor). Melvyn Bragg is a heavyweight arts show presenter and (not so lauded) novelist, here in the U.K..
 
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Lewis Goldberg
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Thanks Alan. I didn't realize their was a UK Avalon Hill franchise. Guess that makes sense, as I knew there was one for SPI.
 
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alan beaumont
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Old News
lgoldberg wrote:
Thanks Alan. I didn't realize their was a UK Avalon Hill franchise. Guess that makes sense, as I knew there was one for SPI.
I should know, I worked for them from Oct '76-July '83.
Another bit of trivia. Because the AH franchise was exclusive, T.M. turned down the opportunity to import a new product: Dungeons & Dragons. blush
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