Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Carcassonne» Forums » Variants

Subject: A Cloister Variant rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Martin Matt
Portugal
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The rules concerning cloisters/monks have two particularities:

(1) A cloister will remain unoccupied for the remainder of the game if a monk is not played during the turn in which the cloister tile is drawn. There is a one-time opportunity to occupy a cloister (excepting when using the Princess&Dragon expansion).

(2) Playing a monk when the “cloister-tile” is surrounded by few tiles retains the follower too much turns until it scores. So, 9 points is a weak award.
On the other hand, playing a monk when the “cloister-tile” is surrounded by many tiles is an opportunity to score “easy points”, since 9 points are scored soon, so it’s an excessive award.

We have nothing against “particularities” of features (by the contrary, we promote it), but, in our opinion, these are “unpleasant” particularities. We dislike both ! The former is “ugly” and the second is “unfair”. Furthermore, those two particularities are strategically dependent on each other.
So, we stated the following rules in order to fix these “problems”:

(Rule A) When you play a tile in the “area of influence” of a cloister, if no monk occupies that cloister you may play a monk in it (instead of playing any figure in the tile just played).

(Rule B) In subsequent turns (of any player) the monk scores 1 point whenever a new tile is placed in the “area of influence” of the cloister. When the cloister is completed, the monk receives additional 5 points for the completion.


Example #1:
Player A plays a cloister-tile and a monk in it. Only one tile is next to the cloister-tile at this time.
In a subsequent turns, 6 new tiles are placed next to the cloister - the monk gets 1 point each time, so it aggregates 6 points. When a 7th tile is played next the cloister (it becomes surrounded by 8 tiles), the monk gets 1 more point for the last tile plus 5 points for the cloister completion. So, the monk has accumulated 6+6 = 12 points (a “fair” award for a long wait!)

Example #2:
Player B plays a cloister-tile in a “hole” surrounded by 8 tiles and plays a monk in the cloister. Since he has immediately completed the cloister, he scores 5 points for the cloister completion (but none for other tiles since they were previously played). So, the monk only gets 5 points (what is a reasonable - but still generous - award for a “very low cost” action!)

Note that in the example #1 if the player who plays the cloister-tile doesn't immediately plays a monk, any other player (or himself) can do it in any subsequent turn and get points (although no so many) from the cloister. This opens a more interesting strategic decision on playing a monk and more balanced return from cloisters (we believe)!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kate Callen
Israel
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Interesting. Does the player have to notice every tile laid at the time to get the point? I.e. If the monk is laid at the beginning, when there's only one adjacent tile, and then later on the player who owns it places a third one there, not having seen when the second was laid, do they get one point or two?

Under the basic rules, if we realise later on that one was surrounded, we've always played that you get the points and the meeple back whenever you see it, and if that wasn't immediate then your inattention has cost you the use of the meeple for that time. It hasn't lost you related points, however. With your variant, I can see arguments arising over the points thing...
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pere
Spain
La Nucia
Alicante
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This variant destroys the classic strategy of 'making a hole' while waiting for the cloister
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Matt
Portugal
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Under the basic rules, if we realise later on that one was surrounded, we've always played that you get the points and the meeple back whenever you see it, and if that wasn't immediate then your inattention has cost you the use of the meeple for that time.


Indeed?!? My rules booklet says nothing about that!
I've supposed such kind of rules should be stated by player's agreement...
(What if we realise that, say three turns ago, a knight should had received more points than they had actually received? The rules says anything about that, does it?)

In our case, since we play just for fun, we normally warn the player who forgets to collect points. When this doesn't immediately occurs, we usually will retrieve the "forgotten" points since there is no doubt about they should be awarded. If there is any doubt, points are not awarded.
Occasionally, when a "hard-game" is taking place, we play with no mercy: you must claim points before the next step/turn or you lose them!

Be free to decide what is better to you!


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kate Callen
Israel
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MattMartin wrote:
Quote:
Under the basic rules, if we realise later on that one was surrounded, we've always played that you get the points and the meeple back whenever you see it, and if that wasn't immediate then your inattention has cost you the use of the meeple for that time.


Indeed?!? My rules booklet says nothing about that!


I didn't say it was in the rules booklet - that's just what we've been doing. With only two of us playing, it isn't that uncommon for neither of us to notice for awhile. Sorry for any confusion.

Quote:
I've supposed such kind of rules should be stated by player's agreement...


That's what I meant, but I was responding to a change in rules that would require addressing a situation currently agreed by the players in a game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Matt
Portugal
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
This variant destroys the classic strategy of 'making a hole' while waiting for the cloister
- Pere said

I wouldn´t say "destroys" but "reduces" (you still receive points for that).
Nevertheless, if you "make a hole" to place a cloister, then any of your opponents could place it before you ... so that's a risky strategy!
This "classic" strategy's break doesn't worry us; we prefer the advantages of our variant, but - of course - it's just a matter of taste!

Thanks for your oppinion.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Matt
Portugal
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Ok, Kate Callen, sorry for the misunderstand!
Thanks for your remark.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Matt
Portugal
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
I think we shall not try this variant (just because we are conservative/complacent and so on). Sorry. Thumbs up anyway on a good idea!
- Norbert Müller said

That's fine! Thanks and thumbs up to your comment as well!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Matt
Portugal
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
senseless wrote:
This variant destroys the classic strategy of 'making a hole' while waiting for the cloister


Let be notice that rule (A) does not !
Rule (A) When you play a tile in the "area of influence" of a cloister, if no monk occupies that cloister you may play a monk in it (instead of playing any figure in the tile just played).

So ignoring rule (B) and considering the rule (A) only you may still "make a hole and wait for a cloister" in order to get the regular 9 points. But now, we see three fun implications:
(a) if you don´t deploy a monk in a cloister you've drawn, anyone else can do it later and get the 9 points instead of you (so you must think twice ...)
(b) if you draw a cloister and you feel that playing a monk is not the better solution by now, you may still have the possibility of playing it in a subsequent turn in that cloister (so you must evaluate the risk...)
(c) cloisters should become more disputed since now they are "open" for "occupation" during more than one single turn ,

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.