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Subject: Questions on Spotting Enemies, Grenade Attempts and Smoke as a signal rss

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Chris Dorrell
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Hi,

More questions from my difficult session last night:-

Q1 - Let's say I have several units on different cards, all in LOS of an enemy occupied unspotted card. One of those units succeeds with an attempt to spot action and so the ?PC is removed. Am I right in assuming that all units in LOS can now "see" the spotted unit(s). I can't see how the game would work otherwise but I wonder in practice how units, not in communication with the spotting unit, would know where the enemy was?

Q2 - If a Grenade Attempt fails, is the ammo used. I read somewhere that a failed attempt could be because the unit failed to fire off the grenade. If that's the case I would expect the ammo to go unused but then what is the meaning of the -1 Grenade Miss marker?

Q3 - Let's assume I have a "Fall Back" command assigned to Red Smoke and a PLT HQ deploys it in LOS of several cards containing US units. Do they all fall back? I had one squad on a card ahead of the PLT HQ that I wanted to fall back but I assumed that all units in LOS would follow the command, which would have been a disaster. If they would all fall back, presumably I have to be more precise with the wording of the commands I allocate?

Thanks in advance for the help.
Cheers
Chris

 
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Christopher
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Chris Dorrell wrote:
Hi,

More questions from my difficult session last night:-

Q1 - Let's say I have several units on different cards, all in LOS of an enemy occupied unspotted card. One of those units succeeds with an attempt to spot action and so the ?PC is removed. Am I right in assuming that all units in LOS can now "see" the spotted unit(s). I can't see how the game would work otherwise but I wonder in practice how units, not in communication with the spotting unit, would know where the enemy was?


YES, spotted is spotted, and it is so for everyone.

Chris Dorrell wrote:

Q2 - If a Grenade Attempt fails, is the ammo used. I read somewhere that a failed attempt could be because the unit failed to fire off the grenade. If that's the case I would expect the ammo to go unused but then what is the meaning of the -1 Grenade Miss marker?


yes, the ammo is used, and you receive a -1 grenade MISS VoF on the whole card.

I think you maybe thought of the attempt to call for fire, which does not use a fire mission if failed...

Chris Dorrell wrote:

Q3 - Let's assume I have a "Fall Back" command assigned to Red Smoke and a PLT HQ deploys it in LOS of several cards containing US units. Do they all fall back? I had one squad on a card ahead of the PLT HQ that I wanted to fall back but I assumed that all units in LOS would follow the command, which would have been a disaster. If they would all fall back, presumably I have to be more precise with the wording of the commands I allocate?


How you use the pyrotechnics is more or less up to you. You can key it to a command that applies to the complete company, or to a simple platoon. I always played it always so that I interpret them rather literally as how I wrote them down in the briefing: as this is what I can imagine would happen in reality: The Co Commander tells the PLT and other Leaders which pyro's they will use wherefore in the next mission, and the later interpretation of the pyro's by those leaders and units will depend on how clear the Commander explained his intentions to them during the briefing...

What I often do is key pyro's to movement related to phase lines:
eg.: RSC = fall back/advance behind Phase Line 1; GSC = fall back/advance behind PL2


-- edited to clarify a bit more....
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Blake Phillips
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Q1: yes all units would see the unit AND open fire right away.

Q2: I have always assumed that ammo is used...

Q3: everyone that can see the pyro will respond to it. Not sure if you can have pyros keyed to specific platoons.

I am sure others will add more detail.

Chris Dorrell wrote:
Hi,

More questions from my difficult session last night:-

Q1 - Let's say I have several units on different cards, all in LOS of an enemy occupied unspotted card. One of those units succeeds with an attempt to spot action and so the ?PC is removed. Am I right in assuming that all units in LOS can now "see" the spotted unit(s). I can't see how the game would work otherwise but I wonder in practice how units, not in communication with the spotting unit, would know where the enemy was?

Q2 - If a Grenade Attempt fails, is the ammo used. I read somewhere that a failed attempt could be because the unit failed to fire off the grenade. If that's the case I would expect the ammo to go unused but then what is the meaning of the -1 Grenade Miss marker?

Q3 - Let's assume I have a "Fall Back" command assigned to Red Smoke and a PLT HQ deploys it in LOS of several cards containing US units. Do they all fall back? I had one squad on a card ahead of the PLT HQ that I wanted to fall back but I assumed that all units in LOS would follow the command, which would have been a disaster. If they would all fall back, presumably I have to be more precise with the wording of the commands I allocate?

Thanks in advance for the help.
Cheers
Chris

 
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Christopher
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Yaboo wrote:

Q3: everyone that can see the pyro will respond to it. Not sure if you can have pyros keyed to specific platoons.


think the intention of the pyro's is that you can decide to key them to anything which seems logical. I can imagine that one uses a pyro to specifically move units of a specific platoon, depending on that platoon's role in the mission...

example: RSP = 1st platoon: regroup to me (which can be the PLT HQ for instance)

-- edit to add example
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Chris Dorrell
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Thanks Christopher and Blake,

Wow you guys are quick!

So I'm OK with spotting enemies and grenade attempts.

As for pyrotechics, again I seem to be on the right lines. In the example I quoted it would appear that I could have made it platoon specific. So your idea of "fall back to me" as PLT HQ would have worked.

I guess this is mirroring reality as it must be very difficult to organise prearranged commands to cover future scenarios!

I have to say that, when I first started playing FoF which in itself was after many many hours of reading etc., I was spending 80% of the time rereading the rules and 20% actually playing the game. I think I now have the ratio down to 30% rules and clarification and 70% playing - so we progress.

Either way it's great fun and I would encourage anyone reading these threads to stick with it because in my opinion it's well worth it.

Thanks again guys
Chris
 
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Michael J
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Chris Dorrell wrote:
Hi,

More questions from my difficult session last night:-

Q1 - Let's say I have several units on different cards, all in LOS of an enemy occupied unspotted card. One of those units succeeds with an attempt to spot action and so the ?PC is removed. Am I right in assuming that all units in LOS can now "see" the spotted unit(s). I can't see how the game would work otherwise but I wonder in practice how units, not in communication with the spotting unit, would know where the enemy was?

Q2 - If a Grenade Attempt fails, is the ammo used. I read somewhere that a failed attempt could be because the unit failed to fire off the grenade. If that's the case I would expect the ammo to go unused but then what is the meaning of the -1 Grenade Miss marker?


Q1 - I tend to think of the spotting rule in that the spot succeeded for one unit means that the enemy came out of hiding or did something to otherwise reveal themselves; secondly, once revealed, friendly forces started shooting at one particular spot, which all units can see, and therefore they can start shooting at that spot too with the assumption that their brothers had found something worthing shooting at.

Q2 - I think the -1 Grenade Marker represents that the unit was frantically running for cover to escape the explosion, and during that time, they are more vulnerable to attack.
 
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Chris Dorrell
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mjacobsca wrote:

Q1 - I tend to think of the spotting rule in that the spot succeeded for one unit means that the enemy came out of hiding or did something to otherwise reveal themselves; secondly, once revealed, friendly forces started shooting at one particular spot, which all units can see, and therefore they can start shooting at that spot too with the assumption that their brothers had found something worthing shooting at.


I like that thought process.

mjacobsca wrote:

Q2 - The -1 Grenade Miss marker is similar to the Pinned marker; units undergoing grenade attacks are generally pinned to the ground, or diving for cover, and are therefore harder to hit for other units. Until they "recover", and come back out into a standing position, they get the benefit of the -1 VOF modifier.


Not so sure what you're saying here? Surely the -1 Grenade Miss makes life more diffcult and increases the chance of injury. Whereas a Pinned marker give a +1 benefit because they have their heads down.

Given that the answer to my question is that the grenade ammo is used even if the attempt fails, I take the -1 Grenade Miss marker to mean that there is still a chance of all units on the card receiving damage even from a poorly delivered grenade.

Thanks for your comments Michael
Chris
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Blake Phillips
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Right - that makes sense and lines up with comments from the designer regarding use of pyro's. I have never taken advantage of that and in general I think I under utilize them. So I will have to give that some more thought before my next mission kicks off. Thanks.

teufen wrote:
Yaboo wrote:

Q3: everyone that can see the pyro will respond to it. Not sure if you can have pyros keyed to specific platoons.


think the intention of the pyro's is that you can decide to key them to anything which seems logical. I can imagine that one uses a pyro to specifically move units of a specific platoon, depending on that platoon's role in the mission...

example: RSP = 1st platoon: regroup to me (which can be the PLT HQ for instance)

-- edit to add example
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Andreas Krüger
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I like to use the fireworks for general useful commands like cease fire for everybody. (Especially cease fire does not have to be limited to a certain platoon, because if a platoon still has something to fire at, they will open up again. So nothing bad happens if all platoons cease fire).

I use smoke signals for search cover or fall back commands and limit them to a platoon. This works well because smoke is visible only in a small area, and quite often only one platoon can see it anyway. My platoon HQs carry the smoke signals, and my CO staff gets the signal pistols.
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Michael J
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Chris Dorrell wrote:
mjacobsca wrote:

Q1 - I tend to think of the spotting rule in that the spot succeeded for one unit means that the enemy came out of hiding or did something to otherwise reveal themselves; secondly, once revealed, friendly forces started shooting at one particular spot, which all units can see, and therefore they can start shooting at that spot too with the assumption that their brothers had found something worthing shooting at.


I like that thought process.

mjacobsca wrote:

Q2 - The -1 Grenade Miss marker is similar to the Pinned marker; units undergoing grenade attacks are generally pinned to the ground, or diving for cover, and are therefore harder to hit for other units. Until they "recover", and come back out into a standing position, they get the benefit of the -1 VOF modifier.


Not so sure what you're saying here? Surely the -1 Grenade Miss makes life more diffcult and increases the chance of injury. Whereas a Pinned marker give a +1 benefit because they have their heads down.

Given that the answer to my question is that the grenade ammo is used even if the attempt fails, I take the -1 Grenade Miss marker to mean that there is still a chance of all units on the card receiving damage even from a poorly delivered grenade.

Thanks for your comments Michael
Chris


Oops, sorry Chris. Yes, I was responding without thinking. Hehe. Forgive me. In that case, I think the -1 Grenade Marker represents that the unit was frantically running for cover to escape the explosion, and during that time, they are more vulnerable to attack. I'm going to edit my original post so that it doesn't throw anyone off!
 
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Chris Dorrell
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mjacobsca wrote:
Oops, sorry Chris. Yes, I was responding without thinking. Hehe. Forgive me. In that case, I think the -1 Grenade Marker represents that the unit was frantically running for cover to escape the explosion, and during that time, they are more vulnerable to attack. I'm going to edit my original post so that it doesn't throw anyone off!


Michael - no problem. As I've said elsewhere, you think you have this game cracked and then another situation occurs and it's back to the rules analysis again. When I read what you put originally I thought you'd either got it wrong or I'd completely lost it.

Thanks for maintaining my sanity!

Chris
 
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Eric Guttag
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Chris D.

Responding to your Q3 and as others have said, pyro designations are a matter of personal preference. I've been doing offensive/patrol missions in Normandy, and I usually use the Green pyros for advance towards the Primary/Secondary OBJ, the Red pyros to Cease Fire (a very handy signal to have), the Purple/Yellow smoke to Shift Fire to biggest target in steps (also handy), and H/WP smoke to Seek Cover (consistent with when these pyros are normally used). Again, it's a matter of personal preference, tactics and style.
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Chris Dorrell
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Eric G wrote:
Chris D.
Responding to your Q3 and as others have said, pyro designations are a matter of personal preference. I've been doing offensive/patrol missions in Normandy, and I usually use the Green pyros for advance towards the Primary/Secondary OBJ, the Red pyros to Cease Fire (a very handy signal to have), the Purple/Yellow smoke to Shift Fire to biggest target in steps (also handy), and H/WP smoke to Seek Cover (consistent with when these pyros are normally used). Again, it's a matter of personal preference, tactics and style.

Eric,

Thanks for that - really useful. I like the idea of linking pyros to Objectives - only logical really I guess. It's interesting how the many features of FoF open up all sorts of decisions and thought processes.

My problem, referenced in my Q3, was that I needed a very specific command and my pyro command was too broad. I suppose that's the dilemma.

Cheers
Chris
 
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