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Subject: No More Traitors? A somewhat predictable storm? rss

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Zenjoy
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Still learning the game. Just want to make sure I understand two elements:

- Players ONLY get 1 Traitor, chosen from 4, at the start of the game, save The Harkonen (likely mispelled here) who keep all 4. No player gets any more during game time, and once used do not get it back. Is this correct?

- Without the Fremen in a game, the storm will move anywhere between 2-6 spaces (given 2 players need to choose a number from 1, 2 or 3). In this case, wouldn't that mean its always then safe to be in the sector adjacent the current storm? Why not just do what the Fremen do (i.e.: draw a title) save no one looks at it and it is revealed on the next turn? Would this be too significant an advantage/disadvantage and if so why?

 
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B C Z
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zfairborn wrote:
Still learning the game. Just want to make sure I understand two elements:

- Players ONLY get 1 Traitor, chosen from 4, at the start of the game, save The Harkonen (likely mispelled here) who keep all 4. No player gets any more during game time, and once used do not get it back. Is this correct?


Pick one leader who is in your employ.
They remain in your employ the entire game.
If an opponent is stupid enough to use a traitorous leader twice in a game, they deserve what they get.


Quote:

- Without the Fremen in a game, the storm will move anywhere between 2-6 spaces (given 2 players need to choose a number from 1, 2 or 3). In this case, wouldn't that mean its always then safe to be in the sector adjacent the current storm? Why not just do what the Fremen do (i.e.: draw a title) save no one looks at it and it is revealed on the next turn? Would this be too significant an advantage/disadvantage and if so why?

Most people use the storm marker regardless of whether the Fremen are in the game or not. They also don't pre-select it, they draw it at the moment it is needed (because no-one can forecast it).

Oh, and the Fremen should always be in the game.



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Bill H
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"Shijuro" in Awatum (Serpent's Tongue)
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zfairborn wrote:
wouldn't that mean its always then safe to be in the sector adjacent the current storm?

The storm affects the sectors it passes over also, so the adjacent sector is definitely not safe.
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Ian McCarthy
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Shijuro wrote:
zfairborn wrote:
wouldn't that mean its always then safe to be in the sector adjacent the current storm?

The storm affects the sectors it passes over also, so the adjacent sector is definitely not safe.


Okay, I just double-checked that rule. Pretty sure we played it wrong. Good to know.
 
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Zenjoy
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Ah! So if the Storm moves 6 sectors, then EVERY unit that is not on a rock-region or in a Stronghold is wiped out from where the Storm started to where it ended. Is that correct?

Dang that's Brutal!! Makes thematic sense mind.

And so using the 'Random Counter' for storm-movement is all good then, regardless of Freman presence or no?

And do I understand correctly that the Fremen can CHOOSE how fast the Storm moves (i.e.: they get to pick which counter [1-6] the Storm will move - they do NOT select a token randomly).

 
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Jeremiah Lee
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I believe the Fremen randomly select, but they have the advantage of knowing where it goes.
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Anthony
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Quote:
And do I understand correctly that the Fremen can CHOOSE how fast the Storm moves (i.e.: they get to pick which counter [1-6] the Storm will move - they do NOT select a token randomly).

The only time the storm can be controlled is by someone playing the "Weather Control" card.

Jeremiah_Lee wrote:
I believe the Fremen randomly select, but they have the advantage of knowing where it goes.


Yep, what he said.
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zfairborn wrote:
Ah! So if the Storm moves 6 sectors, then EVERY unit that is not on a rock-region or in a Stronghold is wiped out from where the Storm started to where it ended. Is that correct?

Dang that's Brutal!! Makes thematic sense mind.



Wait, no. There are three sectors per player dot, so 18 around the board. With maximum draws every time (and no weather control), it takes 3 turns for the storm to go around the board. Realistically it's twice that long.

Sectors are defined by the spoke lines drawn from the Polar Sink to the edge of the board, not by the colored player dots.

Everything Jeremiah and the Doctor said is also correct, though.

The Fremen knowing where the storm goes is normally of very little importance.
 
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Dan Nunuyerbiznez
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Just to ask: why do people play with storm chits? To me, that is an important part of the game, that the last two combatants get to play storm kings, along with all the political and economic machinations pertaining thereto.
 
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B C Z
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Not Sure wrote:

The Fremen knowing where the storm goes is normally of very little importance.


Heresy!
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Robert Manning
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zfairborn wrote:
...from where the Storm started...


As I recall, the Storm does not affect its starting sector -- only the ones it passes over or stops in.
 
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rmanning wrote:
zfairborn wrote:
...from where the Storm started...


As I recall, the Storm does not affect its starting sector -- only the ones it passes over or stops in.


Since nothing can enter or leave a storm affected sector (except Fremen troops @ half strength), that's a bit of a moot point.
 
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Brad Johnson
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byronczimmer wrote:
rmanning wrote:
zfairborn wrote:
...from where the Storm started...


As I recall, the Storm does not affect its starting sector -- only the ones it passes over or stops in.


Since nothing can enter or leave a storm affected sector (except Fremen troops @ half strength), that's a bit of a moot point.


It's not entirely moot. It comes up every now and then that (for example) the storm is sitting over Arrakeen (with tokens safely huddled in the stronghold), and then someone blows the Shield Wall. When the storm moves next, are the tokens in Arrakeen destroyed or not? The answer is they are not, because the storm does not affect the starting sector.
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Brad Johnson
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byronczimmer wrote:
Not Sure wrote:

The Fremen knowing where the storm goes is normally of very little importance.


Heresy!


For what it's worth, I agree with Not Sure -- once in a while (couple times a game?) it might be of interest, and once every few games it may actually be of critical importance, but normally it's not exactly game changing information...

Same thing with the Atreides ability to look at the next spice card, but moreso. Sometimes when you know a Nexus is coming, it might be valuable info, but I've never yet found a real use for knowing where the next spice blow is going to appear...
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Brad Johnson
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DnaDan56 wrote:
Just to ask: why do people play with storm chits? To me, that is an important part of the game, that the last two combatants get to play storm kings, along with all the political and economic machinations pertaining thereto.


Because it's a special power of the Fremen to know how far the storm is going to go next. (Can't remember for sure - is it an advanced or optional rule?) If you use the rule where the last two combatants dial the storm, the Fremen loses that ability. (And the generally need all the help they can get.)
 
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Jeremiah Lee
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tempus42 wrote:
Because it's a special power of the Fremen to know how far the storm is going to go next. (Can't remember for sure - is it an advanced or optional rule?) If you use the rule where the last two combatants dial the storm, the Fremen loses that ability. (And the generally need all the help they can get.)
Optional
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Zsolt Nagy
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tempus42 wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
Not Sure wrote:

The Fremen knowing where the storm goes is normally of very little importance.


Heresy!


For what it's worth, I agree with Not Sure -- once in a while (couple times a game?) it might be of interest, and once every few games it may actually be of critical importance, but normally it's not exactly game changing information...

Same thing with the Atreides ability to look at the next spice card, but moreso. Sometimes when you know a Nexus is coming, it might be valuable info, but I've never yet found a real use for knowing where the next spice blow is going to appear...


You can usually sell that info for a little spice or other favours to someone else who might be much more interested...
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Matt Smith
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DnaDan56 wrote:
Just to ask: why do people play with storm chits? To me, that is an important part of the game, that the last two combatants get to play storm kings, along with all the political and economic machinations pertaining thereto.

Even when we don't have the fremen, we still move the storm randomly by rolling a d6. Just because the fremen aren't around doesn't mean someone should be able influence the storm--heck, the fremen can't influence the storm either, they just get prior knowledge. I think it's important that the storm remain an unknown quantity.
tempus42 wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
rmanning wrote:
zfairborn wrote:
...from where the Storm started...


As I recall, the Storm does not affect its starting sector -- only the ones it passes over or stops in.


Since nothing can enter or leave a storm affected sector (except Fremen troops @ half strength), that's a bit of a moot point.


It's not entirely moot. It comes up every now and then that (for example) the storm is sitting over Arrakeen (with tokens safely huddled in the stronghold), and then someone blows the Shield Wall. When the storm moves next, are the tokens in Arrakeen destroyed or not? The answer is they are not, because the storm does not affect the starting sector.

Also, sometimes a spice blow occurs under the storm.
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