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War of the Ring (First Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Help Unlooked For (and Charge too!) rss

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Eric Johnson
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Playing a game the other day, this card caused several questions. I have seen some of them answered by the designer in another post here, but I'm hoping to find specific rulebook or FAQ citations. (If the designer had to step in to clarify, why wasn't this added to the FAQ?)

So:

1.) Is "Help Unlooked For" a full battle, i.e. can you play combat cards, is there a leader re-roll, does it go on past the initial attack, etc.? The reason we were confused about this is that cards like "Charge" are also called an attack (albeit an "extra" one) but apparently don't involve the playing of combat cards, leader re-rolls, etc.

1 a.)Speaking of which, does "Charge" allow the defender to even roll dice? Is that what is meant by "score hits immediately?" (i.e. no defender roll)

2.) The designer stated that "Help Unlooked For" does not allow a nation which is not yet At War to do the attacking. This makes sense, in retrospect, but it's not very intuitive given the way all the other cards allow you to break political rules. Is there anything in the rules or the FAQ which ultimately clarifies this?

Such a great game. I really hope these, and all other questions and answers, have been incorporated into the Collector's Edition cards and rules.

Thanks!

 
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Miikka Sohlman
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These are good questions and I agree the rules or text on cards should be more obvious. However some careful rules and FAQ reading + experience + this forum reveals that:

1. Yes, it's a normal full battle like any other. It differs from a "Charge" because "Charge" is a Combat Card which is played during the battle but "Help Unlooked For" is an Event that starts the battle.

late edit: It also sucks that cards like "Faramir's Rangers" uses the word "attack" and in those cases it's just rolling some dice and causing direct damage, while a cards like "Help Unlooked For" actually starts a real battle... must be confusing for newbies.

1a. When a card says you can make an extra attack before the Combat Roll using such and such units, it means you can make a Combat Roll with those units (no leader re-rolls) before the *actual* Combat Roll phase begins.
Modifiers, like City defense bonus etc. applies. Only you can make that extra roll because you played that card (unless the opponent also played such a card of course). Then the opponent removes possible casualties and the actual battle begins.

Yes, it should say something else than "extra attack" because that implies leader re-rolls and stuff.. My friend got so mad over this when I told him he can't re-roll.

2. You are right again. It makes sense while not immediately intuitive. But that's just how it its. When Krieghund gets here, he'll probably quote the rulebook page 11 which goes like this

Rulebook page 11 wrote:
Usually, a card allows a player to take an action that violates the standard rules: this is intentional, but any rule that is not expressly replaced by the card text still applies normally.

So I *suppose* the card doesn't expressly replace the political rule...
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Kevin Chapman
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Nice answer, Mikka! I will add some notes, though.

Hipsu wrote:
It also sucks that cards like "Faramir's Rangers" uses the word "attack" and in those cases it's just rolling some dice and causing direct damage, while a cards like "Help Unlooked For" actually starts a real battle... must be confusing for newbies.

Cards like Faramir's Rangers just say "attack", whereas cards like Help Unlooked For say "attack with an Army", which indicates the difference between them. An important difference is that non-Army attack cards cannot kill Nazgul or Characters, unless the card states otherwise.

Hipsu wrote:
1a. When a card says you can make an extra attack before the Combat Roll using such and such units, it means you can make a Combat Roll with those units (no leader re-rolls) before the *actual* Combat Roll phase begins.

An "extra attack" is not a Combat Roll. Leader Re-rolls apply only to Combat Rolls.

Hipsu wrote:
Modifiers, like City defense bonus etc. applies.

Unless the Combat card specifies a target hit number.
 
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Miikka Sohlman
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Krieghund wrote:
Cards like Faramir's Rangers just say "attack", whereas cards like Help Unlooked For say "attack with an Army", which indicates the difference between them. An important difference is that non-Army attack cards cannot kill Nazgul or Characters, unless the card states otherwise.

Believe me, it's not that clear for newbies. I struggled with this mess myself for a long time and every time I saw any card that said "attack" I had to grab the rules and the FAQ to find out how Political Track affects and is affected by it and still could not find if I can play Faramir's Rangers if Gondor is not at war... robot

Krieghund wrote:
An "extra attack" is not a Combat Roll. Leader Re-rolls apply only to Combat Rolls.

True, it's not. I shouldn't have used that word as it only causes more confusion. I tried invent something simple to replace the term "extra attack" which might invoke an idea of a full attack round with re-rolls and stuff. But thanks for clarifying that Leader Re-rolls apply ONLY to Combat Rolls and nothing else. Now if only these kind of hard facts were bold and red in the rulebook...
 
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Kevin Chapman
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Yes, you can play Faramir's Rangers if Gondor is not at War. There is no prohibition in general against playing "attack" cards (as opposed to "attack with an Army" cards) when a Nation is not at War, and the card itself doesn't require it as a prerequisite.
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