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Subject: A possible "Forced Action" variant to help with clogging? rss

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Dane Barrett
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Henderson
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Firstly I should mention, I don't really have any issue with "clogging" in the game. For those who haven't read about it, clogging is when the Dungeon Hall is full of low (or zero) scoring monsters and none of the players want to take the risk of killing one in case they reveal a higher scoring monster for someone else to take.

It also happens when the Thunderstone is in the hall and none of the players want to kill the monsters in front of it in case they inadvertently give away 3 victory points to an opponent.

Now I'm no game designer, so this idea may ending up breaking a bunch of other game mechanics for all I know. But I thought I'd throw it out there for those of you who are a bit smarter about game design than I am. Also I apologize if this variant has already been proposed by someone else amongst the plethora of rules threads.

My proposal is forcing a player to take an action each turn.

Currently when you Visit the Dungeon you are required to attack a monster. This is good. The only time this falls apart is when card actions prevent you from attacking any of the monsters.

Currently when you Visit the Village, you MAY purchase a card, and you MAY level up a hero. I propose that one (or both if you so desire) of these actions MUST be performed if you choose to visit the village. If you cannot do one, then you must choose to either Visit the Dungeon or Rest this turn.

Currently when you Rest you MAY destroy one card from your hand. I propose that if you choose to rest you MUST destroy a card from your hand.

By making these changes I would hope that the following would happen:

* Players would have a harder time skipping a turn, as if they are forced to purchase more cards from the village they will choke up their deck, and if they rest a lot they would eventually get into the situation that they might be forced to destroy valuable cards.

* This would in turn hopefully force the hand of someone eventually, making them go into the dungeon and kill something as they may not want to destroy the precious cards in their hands (and there might be no village cards left to purchase). Or a player might decide that the other players have decks that are not sufficiently thinned enough to be effective within the next turn, so might go in and clear one of the useless monsters out.

NOTE: Of course players could also try to get themselves in a loop, ie. buy a card from the village one turn, then rest and destroy a card the next turn, so while this does not resolve the entire element of "clogging", it at least should prevent any stalemate from occurring (because eventually that village is going to run out of cards).

I haven't tested this by the way, so if you can see any glaring faults (there may be many) that would adversely effect gameplay please feel free to drop kick this out of the park
 
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Ted Vessenes
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This would do nothing. The game stalls because going to the dungeon costs you points in the relative sense. The only solution is to set yourself up to purchase level 3 heroes, as that's at least a course of action that increases your deck's score. Every time the game has stalled out, I've wanted to buy something when I visited the village. And I wanted to trash something whenever I rested.

The only thing that's guaranteed to fix stalling is a Puerto Rico style mechanic that makes it more valuable to kill monsters that people continually don't attack. I don't see an easy way to retrofit this mechanic into the game though. The easier thing to do is not play with monsters that are worth less than 3 victory points, and make the Thunderstone worth 0 points.
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Dane Barrett
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tedv wrote:
This would do nothing. The game stalls because going to the dungeon costs you points in the relative sense. The only solution is to set yourself up to purchase level 3 heroes, as that's at least a course of action that increases your deck's score. Every time the game has stalled out, I've wanted to buy something when I visited the village. And I wanted to trash something whenever I rested.


That's why I included the sentence "...so while this does not resolve the entire element of "clogging", it at least should prevent any stalemate from occurring...", as I'm aware that it doesn't solve clogging, but it at least resolves the "Stalemate" that some people have complained about (as eventually the Village is going to run out of cards to buy, and unless you attack monsters you are eventually going to destroy your entire deck including your precious victory point cards).

Thanks for your feedback though.

Edited to fix typo
 
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Dane Barrett
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tedv wrote:
The only thing that's guaranteed to fix stalling is a Puerto Rico style mechanic that makes it more valuable to kill monsters that people continually don't attack. I don't see an easy way to retrofit this mechanic into the game though. The easier thing to do is not play with monsters that are worth less than 3 victory points, and make the Thunderstone worth 0 points.


Hmmm, perhaps a Small World-style system in which if a Monster gets passed over (in order to attack the next rank along) a token of some kind (worth 1 victory point) is placed on the monster card that was passed on? However you'd still need something to encourage someone into the dungeon in the first place.
 
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Yusuke Hasegawa
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Having extra points for 'most monsters killed' at the end of the game could be an incentive to kill those low VP monsters.
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Mik Svellov
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xhydralisk wrote:
Having extra points for 'most monsters killed' at the end of the game could be an incentive to kill those low VP monsters.


Not necessarily. You can still only kill one monster per turn.
 
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Jeff Thornsen
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What about allowing a player to split his hand and attack 2 monsters at once? New players have sometimes asked if they are allowed to kill more than 1 monster (when they have something like 20 ATTACK and 4 Light and all the monsters are worth 2 VP).
 
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Mik Svellov
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Faranim wrote:
What about allowing a player to split his hand and attack 2 monsters at once? New players have sometimes asked if they are allowed to kill more than 1 monster (when they have something like 20 ATTACK and 4 Light and all the monsters are worth 2 VP).


Great!
Now, I can kill two monsters worth 1 VP each, and the player to my left will be able to kill two monsters worth a total of 6 or 7 VP.
That would really make me happy...
 
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Ed Oviedo
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Why not use XP instead. Place an XP card above a the monster in rank one first time it gets passed. Place a second XP card above it next time it gets passed. Up to a limit of 3 XP. If they pass over first and second ranks place XP on the second rank (not both first and second). Defeating the monster also nets you the extra XP cards. This also speeds up leveling which may or may not be desirable depending on your point of view.
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Dane Barrett
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synistar wrote:
Why not use XP instead. Place an XP card above a the monster in rank one first time it gets passed. Place a second XP card above it next time it gets passed. Up to a limit of 3 XP. If they pass over first and second ranks place XP on the second rank (not both first and second). Defeating the monster also nets you the extra XP cards. This also speeds up leveling which may or may not be desirable depending on your point of view.


I've avoided using XP in either this or my "complacent monster" variant, as quite a few people have mentioned to me that they end up with a glut of XP in the game anyway (so I didn't see much point using XP as an incentive)
 
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Ben Dellmour
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Hi,
there is actually an official rule for that problem in the wrath rulebook p.18. It slows the game a tiny bit but is otherwise o.k,

http://www.alderac.com/aeg-ts-wrath-rulebook.pdf

Quote:
Prowling Monsters
This variation offers a hybrid of the normal group play rules
and the aggressive monsters seen in solo play. When setting
up the Dungeon Deck, use 4 sets of monsters instead of 3, as
well as any dungeon features you may happen to draw. Use a
die or a number of counters equal to the number of players.
At the end of each turn, if you do not go to the dungeon, add
a counter to the front rank monster. At the beginning of a
turn if a monster has counters equal to the number of players
in the game, you must either go to the dungeon and attack
the monster, or place the monster face up in front of you as a
penalty card. (This card is never shuffled into your deck.) When
this happens, the hall refills and the counters are removed.
The clock will start ticking for the new front monster on the
next turn.
If you go to the dungeon and attack a monster not on the
front rank, no counters are added. If the front rank monster
is attacked or moved, the counters are removed and the clock
will start for the new monster on the next turn.
At the end of the game, subtract 1 VP for each penalty card
(unstopped monster) you have obtained during the game.
 
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sonny sonny
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we thought about this:
in short: if no monster is killed for 1 round after a kill, 1 monster leaves the dungeon.

detailed:
use a token (anything). when a player attacks any monster he takes the token, (if a player currently has it take it from him). if a player has the token at the start of his turn, and he doesn't attack a monster, the first monster leaves the dungeon at the end of his turn, and the token is removed from the player.
 
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