Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
24 Posts

Navia Dratp» Forums » Rules

Subject: While I have the ND community is online I'd like TROLL resolved. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What did the old boards say about a Dratped Troll getting taken off the board by the owner of that Troll?

If you blow up your own troll you do not get 10G's -Correct?


"Earn 10 Gyullas when Troll is sent to the graveyard by your opponent"

Now say you attack a dratped 'Papillonera' with your dratped Troll-

"The battle piece which takes PAPILLONERA must be sent to the graveyard"

It was your turn, and you just killed your troll by attacking Papi!

I would have to say that you sent your own troll to the graveyard, and do NOT get 10Gs.

Thoughts? Has this been figured out before?

goo Thanks goo
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Tavener
United Kingdom
London
England
flag msg tools
designer
The overtext below is true.
badge
The overtext above is false.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Related Papillonera questions.

What if the piece that captures Papillonera has a sacrifice effect? Technically, Papillonera just says the capturing piece must be sent to the graveyard, not how - but my instincts say that Papillonera's ability should be resolved before the active player has a chance to dratp the piece, but I could argue it either way.

If a piece can be dratped before Papillonera's ability resolves, what about Kairas, who gets to bounce back to the keep?

Finally, what if the capturing piece is protected by Wishborn?

In magic terms, is Papillonera's ability a triggered ability? If so, who owns the ability? Is it instant, or an end-of-turn trigger?

http://www.naviadratp.net/battle-piece/papillonera
http://www.naviadratp.net/battle-piece/koma
http://www.naviadratp.net/battle-piece/kairas
http://www.naviadratp.net/battle-piece/wishborn
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think that I did see one on that specifically.

It stated something to the affect of the attacking piece finishing it's move which includes the Dratp.

After the move is complete, THEN the attacking piece is sent to the graveyard.

So If Netol takes Papi, then Dratps(bringing another piece back). She goes to the graveyard (she would have anyway) and her move is complete.
sauron
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Older thread-
Just stumbled upon this older thread:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/129348/two-questions
Jowjow asks:
If Troll captures a dratped Papillonera, does Troll's owner get 10 gyullas for her when she's sent to the graveyard? (My guess is no based on the fact that she's not really "taken" as the dratp text states, but sent directly to the graveyard, but I wanted confirmation.)

Godeke says NO,

Hughthehand says YES

Jeffk says that it doesn't matter who sends Troll to the graveyard, you kill your own troll and you get the Gs.

So what's the verdict?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Stude
United States
Farmington Hills
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It all depends on whether dratping is considered part of a move. If it is, then I think universally Troll's controller should collect the 10 gyullas. If it's considered a separate phase, then Troll's controller should only collect if Troll started the move dratped.

That said, I disagree with the logic in the original post. A property of the opponent's piece is what is sending the piece to the graveyard, not the move itself, so ultimately I think the piece is being sent to the graveyard by the opponent.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
AxonDomini
United States
Smithtown
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dudical wrote:
Jeffk says that it doesn't matter who sends Troll to the graveyard, you kill your own troll and you get the Gs.


That's not really an accurate depiction of what I said.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Stude
United States
Farmington Hills
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
beetlejuice beetlejuice beetlejuice!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jowjow wrote:
It all depends on whether dratping is considered part of a move. If it is, then I think universally Troll's controller should collect the 10 gyullas. If it's considered a separate phase, then Troll's controller should only collect if Troll started the move dratped.

That said, I disagree with the logic in the original post. A property of the opponent's piece is what is sending the piece to the graveyard, not the move itself, so ultimately I think the piece is being sent to the graveyard by the opponent.


Well yes, we are talking specifically dratped.

Undratped trolls never yield 10 additional Gs.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jeffk wrote:
dudical wrote:
Jeffk says that it doesn't matter who sends Troll to the graveyard, you kill your own troll and you get the Gs.


That's not really an accurate depiction of what I said.



jeffk wrote:
I usually use the "literal interpretation" rule for games in which pieces/cards break the rules - just do exactly what the text on the piece/card says and you'll be fine.

So, as long as Kanaba is on the board, the trapped piece remains trapped. Undratping Kanaba does not remove him from the board. So, I agree with you on this one.

You get 10 gyullas when Troll is sent to the graveyard by your opponent. It does not say "by capture". Pappillanera's power sends Troll to the graveyard, so you would get 10 gyullas. Thus, even an elimination by Tiny Kiggoshi would net you the 10 gyullas.


Is that a better description of what you said?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jens www.spielefreun.de
Germany
Heinersreuth
flag msg tools
designer
Nobody reads this, anyway!
badge
Doea anybody read this, anyway?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
IMHO, the word "taken" is used specifically for the taking at the end of a move, not for some special power.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Dratps
Motorkopf wrote:
IMHO, the word "taken" is used specifically for the taking at the end of a move, not for some special power.


WADR, when the rules talk about an effect happening, it's always the result of a dratped power.

Nothing special happens to any Battle Pieces in a pre-dratp state.
Troll take Papi, or Papi takes Troll. Doesn't make a difference if neither of them are dratped... Nothing special happens cool
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Amy Bute
msg tools
mb
the Troll
Troll's one of my favorites!
$10 when removed from the board OR $10 when 'taken' by your opponent?
Is it one, the other or both!?

jowjow wrote:

If Troll captures a dratped Papillonera, does Troll's owner get 10 gyullas for her when she's sent to the graveyard? (My guess is no based on the fact that she's not really "taken" as the dratp text states, but sent directly to the graveyard, but I wanted confirmation.)


If your enemy has to be the one sending it to the graveyard, I'd have to agree with Jowjow!
Taking Papillonera is a suicide mission, and does NOT get you the $10 kick back.

Just my 2 cents.

-Derbin
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Stude
United States
Farmington Hills
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
actually, since that quoted post I've changed my perspective on this, the difference being between "taken" and "sent" (the latter of which is the wording on the pieces). Check the original post for the exact text on the pieces. Anyway, based on that difference, I think Troll's controller SHOULD get the extra gyullas for taking out Pap.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Amy Bute
msg tools
mb
Jowjow wrote:
actually, since that quoted post I've changed my perspective on this, the difference being between "taken" and "sent" (the latter of which is the wording on the pieces). Check the original post for the exact text on the pieces. Anyway, based on that difference, I think Troll's controller SHOULD get the extra gyullas for taking out Pap.


Sorry, my error...

"Earn 10 Gyullas when Troll is sent to the graveyard by your opponent."

But your original thought is still valid by the specific wording -
"by your opponent" sent/taken makes little dif.

Troll sends herself to the graveyard by taking Pap!

I've played it both ways, but it is NOT worded very well.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Georg von Lemberg
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jeffk wrote:
dudical wrote:
Jeffk says that it doesn't matter who sends Troll to the graveyard, you kill your own troll and you get the Gs.


That's not really an accurate depiction of what I said.


But typing one more sentence to clarify... much... too ... difficult......must ..... not ..........expend.......... precious.....ener....................




 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Amy Bute
msg tools
mb
gvonl wrote:
jeffk wrote:
dudical wrote:
Jeffk says that it doesn't matter who sends Troll to the graveyard, you kill your own troll and you get the Gs.


That's not really an accurate depiction of what I said.


But typing one more sentence to clarify... much... too ... difficult......must ..... not ..........expend.......... precious.....ener....................




could you clarify that with another sentence? shake
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grant Batt
United States
Scottsdale
Arizona
flag msg tools
badge
Rebel
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
hmmm...after reading this thread, maybe I don't want to get into this game....
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Stude
United States
Farmington Hills
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
you'd really be missing out if you abandoned it based on this one issue alone. You very rarely run into situations that aren't relatively clearcut compared to this one.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Knofler
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mbmb
Jowjow wrote:
you'd really be missing out if you abandoned it based on this one issue alone. You very rarely run into situations that aren't relatively clearcut compared to this one.


I agree, poorly written rules, but an amazing game.
It looks like people are working on a rules re-write, so you should be ok!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Knofler
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mbmb
TROLL resolved.
Derbin wrote:
But your original thought is still valid by the specific wording -
"by your opponent" sent/taken makes little dif.

Troll sends herself to the graveyard by taking Pap!

I've played it both ways, but it is NOT worded very well.


Good point but it's best to keep it simple -
"by your opponent/piece/dratp effect" may be a better way to write it so that 'Pap' is included!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Akhana wrote:
Derbin wrote:
But your original thought is still valid by the specific wording -
"by your opponent" sent/taken makes little dif.

Troll sends herself to the graveyard by taking Pap!

I've played it both ways, but it is NOT worded very well.


Good point but it's best to keep it simple -
"by your opponent/piece/dratp effect" may be a better way to write it so that 'Pap' is included!


That's what we're going to do cool
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Knofler
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mbmb
Great!
dudical wrote:
That's what we're going to do


GREAT JOB TOO, THANKS!!!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alan Kwan
Hong Kong
Hong Kong
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Derbin wrote:
I've played it both ways, but it is NOT worded very well.


Well, that is far from being the only rule in ND which is not worded very well ...

Akhana wrote:
Good point but it's best to keep it simple -
"by your opponent/piece/dratp effect" may be a better way to write it so that 'Pap' is included!

I agree with this interpretation. It's Pap that sends Troll to the graveyard, so Troll's controller does get the 10G.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TROLL Ruling:
Alan Kwan wrote:

Akhana wrote:
Good point but it's best to keep it simple -
"by your opponent/piece/dratp effect" may be a better way to write it so that 'Pap' is included!

I agree with this interpretation. It's Pap that sends Troll to the graveyard, so Troll's controller does get the 10G.



Indeed, in the ND Community Rules BETA, we wrote:
#1 TROLL * Navia Guard * Earn 10Gs when enemy effect or attack sends Troll to Graveyard.


http://www.naviadratp.net/files/naviadratpbetarulesmarch2010...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.