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Subject: Card concept: Blood Diamond rss

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Erik D
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I came up with this just now... I think it could be an interesting card should the costs be adjusted (if need be):

Blood Diamond
Curse/Treasure
Cost: 4
$3 (played as a treasure card), -2VP

It would certainly speed up a deck, but you would have to overcome the -2 VP somehow (trashing, gaining enough VP cards so that it doesn't matter, etc).

Thoughts?
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ŁṲÎS̈
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I like it

fan card: Blood Money : Poll added



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Adam Smiles
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The ratio of people to cake is too big.
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ADMIN: Moved to Variants
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Wence the Wanderer
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erak wrote:
I came up with this just now... I think it could be an interesting card should the costs be adjusted (if need be):

Blood Diamond
Curse/Treasure
Cost: 4
$3 (played as a treasure card), -2VP

It would certainly speed up a deck, but you would have to overcome the -2 VP somehow (trashing, gaining enough VP cards so that it doesn't matter, etc).

Thoughts?


too easy to manipulate with chapel, especially because this type of trasure appears to lend its self nicely to small decks. perhaps cost 5 but keep the penalty at 2 vps. i could see a ridiculous deck involving chapel, workshop, and this card.

but then again, i don't know if i really have the experience with dominion to make balance judgements.
 
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ŁṲÎS̈
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Wence wrote:
erak wrote:
I came up with this just now... I think it could be an interesting card should the costs be adjusted (if need be):

Blood Diamond
Curse/Treasure
Cost: 4
$3 (played as a treasure card), -2VP

It would certainly speed up a deck, but you would have to overcome the -2 VP somehow (trashing, gaining enough VP cards so that it doesn't matter, etc).

Thoughts?


too easy to manipulate with chapel, especially because this type of trasure appears to lend its self nicely to small decks. perhaps cost 5 but keep the penalty at 2 vps. i could see a ridiculous deck involving chapel, workshop, and this card.

but then again, i don't know if i really have the experience with dominion to make balance judgements.


From the other, similar thread:
Quote:
Poll
Best balance for Blood Money Card
Cost:2 , VPs: -2
Cost:3 , VPs: -2
Cost:4 , VPs: -2
Cost:2 , VPs: -3
Cost:3 , VPs: -3
Cost:4 , VPs: -3
Cost:2 , VPs: -4
Cost:3 , VPs: -4
Cost:4 , VPs: -4
      111 answers
Poll created by monteslu

cost 3 & -3VP seemed to be the most popular. I tend to agree.

I like the idea of using it with a Chapel, but the base + several expansions means it's becoming less likely to happen unless you want to play that way.
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Mike Tomashewski
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This almost made the cut for my "use the blanks" idea.

I don't like the interaction of being able to hand out these with the Witch etc since it counts as a curse.

I'd think a more elegant solution would require you to gain X curses, and then you +3 coin or whatever. So it burns through the natural curses and then becomes a dead card.

It's too swingy IMO if a trash can get rid of it after you've used it up. There should be some lingering pain.
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John Ladouceur
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Because a card counts as all types that it is at once, with it's current status as a Curse, it could be taken in response to Witches and Torturers.

So even if it does give negative victory points, it needs to be called something else instead of cursing.
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Erik D
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Traveling Hero wrote:
Because a card counts as all types that it is at once, with it's current status as a Curse, it could be taken in response to Witches and Torturers.

So even if it does give negative victory points, it needs to be called something else instead of cursing.


How about "boon"?
 
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Justin B
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Shewski wrote:
This almost made the cut for my "use the blanks" idea.

I don't like the interaction of being able to hand out these with the Witch etc since it counts as a curse.

I'd think a more elegant solution would require you to gain X curses, and then you +3 coin or whatever. So it burns through the natural curses and then becomes a dead card.

It's too swingy IMO if a trash can get rid of it after you've used it up. There should be some lingering pain.


Curses are a card type of their own. Just because something gives negative VPs doesn't mean it needs to be a curse card.

As for lingering pain, how about adding the stipulation that "blood money" may not be trashed from a player's hand. That leaves only Lookout, Masquerade, or attacks like Thief and Pirate ship as the only means for removal.

An alternative arrangement could be that each time the treasure is used during a buy phase, the spender gains a curse card. That could make the curses deplete very rapidly and make trashing them difficult to keep up with.

It would be interesting to see how play-testing would pan out. Very creative card!
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Scott Ames
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I found a great balance for Blood Money.
It works very well.

Cost:4
$3
-1 VP
Treasure/Victory card

As a Victory card players can't take it when Witch, Sea Hag, Embargo, etc. are used. As a Curse card it breaks those.
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Ted Vessenes
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Or you could decide that "gain a Curse card" means "gain a card NAMED curse" rather than "gain a card with TYPE curse". This is a reasonable interpretation of the Witch's card text. Compare with Bureaucrat which reads "gain a Silver card".

I'm sure that if/when this card is printed in Dominion, the designers won't be stumped by how to make it properly (not) interact with the Witch. It's not a hard problem.
 
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tedv wrote:
Or you could decide that "gain a Curse card" means "gain a card NAMED curse" rather than "gain a card with TYPE curse". This is a reasonable interpretation of the Witch's card text. Compare with Bureaucrat which reads "gain a Silver card".

I'm sure that if/when this card is printed in Dominion, the designers won't be stumped by how to make it properly (not) interact with the Witch. It's not a hard problem.


Unfortunate that the type and name of Curse is the same.

I think a new type of "Loss" or "Pain" or something like that should be used for negative VP cards other than the Curse card.
 
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Trevor Schadt
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Wence wrote:
too easy to manipulate with chapel


Perhaps add in something like "This card cannot be Trashed, passed or otherwise removed from your deck." So you buy it, you're stuck with it: it can't be Remodeled/Upgraded/Scavenged, it can't be passed with Masquerade, it can't be Chapeled. Come to think of it, I'll have to go back and check the exact text, but I believe that means you can't even put it on an Island (not that you'd want to, but still).
 
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Tim Baldwin
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txras wrote:
I found a great balance for Blood Money.
It works very well.

Cost:4
$3
-1 VP
Treasure/Victory card

As a Victory card players can't take it when Witch, Sea Hag, Embargo, etc. are used. As a Curse card it breaks those.


Treasure/Victory seems very reasonable to me. Being a Treasure/Victory card adds some interesting interaction with Scout, Bureaucrat and other cards that interact with Victory cards. I don't see any reason why a Victory card can't be worth negative points.

Also, the concern about being able to trash the card late game shouldn't really be an issue. In games with access to a trash card, all players are able to go that route if desired. Even with Remodel/Mine, you are using an action to turn the card into the same monetary value, just increasing the point total of the card.

Deciding at what point to trash Blood Diamond seems like a fun mechanic to me. Trash it too soon and you might end up with a couple of 6/7 hands that you could have still used it. Wait too long and you might not get the trash card and Blood Diamond in your hand together again before the game ends.
 
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Scott Ames
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twbumr wrote:
txras wrote:
I found a great balance for Blood Money.
It works very well.

Cost:4
$3
-1 VP
Treasure/Victory card

As a Victory card players can't take it when Witch, Sea Hag, Embargo, etc. are used. As a Curse card it breaks those.


Treasure/Victory seems very reasonable to me. Being a Treasure/Victory card adds some interesting interaction with Scout, Bureaucrat and other cards that interact with Victory cards. I don't see any reason why a Victory card can't be worth negative points.

Also, the concern about being able to trash the card late game shouldn't really be an issue. In games with access to a trash card, all players are able to go that route if desired. Even with Remodel/Mine, you are using an action to turn the card into the same monetary value, just increasing the point total of the card.

Deciding at what point to trash Blood Diamond seems like a fun mechanic to me. Trash it too soon and you might end up with a couple of 6/7 hands that you could have still used it. Wait too long and you might not get the trash card and Blood Diamond in your hand together again before the game ends.


You got it exactly! The cards that interact with Victory cards was one of the reasons I did that.

Here is the artwork:
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