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World at War: Blood and Bridges» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rule 8.2 Smoke and the Soviets rss

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Russ Shurts
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This came up in last night's game and we couldn't find a definitive answer anywhere.

Rule 8.2 Smoke states:
"This marker blocks LOS,from any elevation, into and through the hex, and the six adjacent hexes, for all Soviet units except as cited below."

However there is no list of Soviet units below. We figured the list was just missing and there must be some USSR unit that have thermal imaging.

A quick wikipedia search showed that the T-80u was introduced in '85 and had thermal imaging. We ruled that the T-80's had TI and got the +1 to hit that the NATO unit have when firing through smoke.

1. Did we get the ruling right?
2. What should the complete "Below" list read?
 
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Pete Atack
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I thought a bunch of that info was listed out on the play aid cards so you might want to check there.
 
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Jeff S
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I can't recall any Soviet units as having Thermal Imagers in the game.
 
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Russ Shurts
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We didn't see anything on the player aids. It's possible I completely overlooked it, but then so did my buddy.

I know there aren't any Soviet forces with TI in Eisenbach and Death of the 1st Panzer (even the West Germans are missing it!) But, what gave credence to the idea that the T-80's should have TI, is the AT-11 Sniper Missile attachment. I'm no expert, but from looking around online this missile worked with the T-80u variant (and not the normal T-80), which was also the variant with thermal imaging.

I'm not drawing a line in the sand and saying, "T-80's must have TI!" I just want to illustrate where the confusion came from (the missing list) and how we came up with a ruling (reading up on T-80 variants).
 
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mochara
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This may be a slight rules abstraction. Maybe the T-80 had T.I., but maybe it was lousy. I don't know enough of the gearhead stuff to say, but modeling a system that doesn't work properly by simply not acknowledging it would suit Mark's "no guff" style, would it not?
 
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Russ Shurts
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It sounds like the general consensus is that the phrase "except as cited below" should be struck from the rules. All Soviet unit LOS should be blocked by smoke.

Personally, I liked having one Soviet unit with thermal imaging. I thought it made for some fun situations. But if it isn't going to be played that way online or at a tournament...
 
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Steven Price
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masshysteria wrote:
A quick wikipedia search showed that the T-80u was introduced in '85 and had thermal imaging.


T-80U was introduced to field units around 1988. It did not have thermal imaging as standard.

Even the thermal imagers the Soviets did develop at the time had roughly the same range as Western Image Intensification - so the Soviet TI was markedly inferior to Western TI at the time. The absence of TI on Soviet AFVs is primarily due to cost.

Recently manufactured T-80Us and T-80UDs do have optional TI but this post-dates the year of fictional combat.

Steven
 
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