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Cosmic Encounter: Cosmic Incursion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Magician Vs. Deuce rss

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Super 77
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Last night we had an interesting encounter between the Magician and the Deuce. Magician was on offense and the Deuce had exactly two encounter cards in his hand when the Magician's ability triggered. What happens then?

Our solution was to make the Deuce play the card that wasn't picked by the Magician, but draw a new hand. This probably isn't correct, but we were stumped as to what to do. Any ideas?
 
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Jefferson Krogh
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Yeah, that's a bit of a tough one. I'd follow the timing rules:

1) Offense first. Magician makes Deuce play two encounter cards face down and chooses one randomly.

2) Defense second. The bit where Deuce has to draw a new hand when he has only one encounter card kicks in; Deuce discards his current hand, including the remaining encounter card. Then Deuce lays down his two cards as usual.

That's not too different from what you did, really.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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If it happened while Deuce was on the offense, I would rule that ends his encounter, since he lost enough cards to require a new hand and when that happens on offense, that ends his turn...

-shnar
 
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Chris Withem

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Ooo This is a tough call. I would say that magician's power has no effect due to the last clause of his alien ability

Magician wrote:
...If your opponent only has one encounter card left (and proves it by showing you his hand except for the encounter card), your power has no effect.


I think this can go the step further in saying that if Deuce has only has 2 encounter cards and can prove it(by showing the rest of his hand), then Magician's power does not work.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Good point, I forgot about that clause of the Magician's. I would agree NoobSauce...

-shnar
 
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Chris O
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I actually believe the opposite. It seems to me in that situation Magician and Deuce both get their licks in. My reasoning:


- Magician uses his power first: "...use this power BEFORE encounter cards are selected..."

- Deuce puts down his last 2 encounter cards, Magician ganks 1 and leaves him with the other. Magician plays a card. Now both cards are played but not revealed.

- Deuce is only now able to use his power: "...AFTER cards are selected but before they are revealed, use this power..."

- So whether or not Deuce is able to use his mandatory power at all in this situation is dependent on this: "When checking to see if you draw a new hand, do so if you have ONE or fewer encounter cards..." When are you able to draw a new hand as defense? According to the rules: "If the defense has no encounter cards when he or she is REQUIRED to play a CARD in an encounter (normally during the Planning Phase), the defense must play (if possible) or discard any non-encounter cards, draw 8 new cards, and play one of them in the encounter...(pg 13)"

- Therefore, Magicians gets to use his power, but at the cost of Deuce getting a sick new hand, both players win, but who wins more? Who knows.




Problem solved.
 
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Chris Withem

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Messianic wrote:
I actually believe the opposite. It seems to me in that situation Magician and Deuce both get their licks in. My reasoning:


- Magician uses his power first: "...use this power BEFORE encounter cards are selected..."

- Deuce puts down his last 2 encounter cards, Magician ganks 1 and leaves him with the other. Magician plays a card. Now both cards are played but not revealed.

- Deuce is only now able to use his power: "...AFTER cards are selected but before they are revealed, use this power..."

- So whether or not Deuce is able to use his mandatory power at all in this situation is dependent on this: "When checking to see if you draw a new hand, do so if you have ONE or fewer encounter cards..." When are you able to draw a new hand as defense? According to the rules: "If the defense has no encounter cards when he or she is REQUIRED to play a CARD in an encounter (normally during the Planning Phase), the defense must play (if possible) or discard any non-encounter cards, draw 8 new cards, and play one of them in the encounter...(pg 13)"

- Therefore, Magicians gets to use his power, but at the cost of Deuce getting a sick new hand, both players win, but who wins more? Who knows.

Problem solved.


I like the way you think. After having it spelled out and debating with my roommate, I may have to agree with this ruling. Ruling this way also completely hoses Deuce in the described scenario when Deuce is on offense, which sucks, but hey! Mutant can easily do it.

I do have a question for you. When entering the planning phase, does your group allow "card-giving" abilities to go off before checking to see if a new hand is drawn? Like do you allow philanthropist and trader or trader wild-flare to be played before drawing a new hand?
 
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Toomai Glittershine
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Technically, Philantrophist is used in Alliance, so it always goes before the defense's hand-drawing.

The fact that Trader is used in Planning as opposed to Alliance (like Mutant or its CEO timing of Launch) implies that you cannot trade a "blank" hand; but you might have to be familiar with previous editions to know that.
 
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Roger
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NoobSauce wrote:
I like the way you think. After having it spelled out and debating with my roommate, I may have to agree with this ruling. Ruling this way also completely hoses Deuce in the described scenario when Deuce is on offense, which sucks, but hey! Mutant can easily do it.

I do have a question for you. When entering the planning phase, does your group allow "card-giving" abilities to go off before checking to see if a new hand is drawn? Like do you allow philanthropist and trader or trader wild-flare to be played before drawing a new hand?


I also agree with Messianic's interpretation, as it seems the most clean.

Drawing a new hand on defense takes place in Planning, and Philanthropist happens in Alliance, so yes, this takes precedence. Trader is a bit less clear, but I think you'd need to have a hand to trade, and I don't believe zero cards constitutes a hand. Toomai put it better.

All of this talk got me wanting to look at other possible Deuce loopholes...

Deuce wrote:
You have the power of Duality. As a main player, after cards are selected but before they are revealed, use this power to place a second encounter card facedown off to one side. This second card is not considered your encounter card and isn't affected by game effects that target your encounter card, such as those of the Oracle or Sorcerer. If both of your encounter cards are revealed to be attacks, the second card's value is added to your side's total. If either is a negotiate, then you have played a negotiate. After the encounter is resolved, discard the negotiate card if you played one, or the higher attack card if you did not, returning the other encounter card to your hand.


By the first clause, Loser's power would also not be able to affect this second card choice.

Take the scenario where Deuce has three encounter cards, an Attack 40, Attack 08, and a Negotiate. If Loser calls for an upset, Deuce should then be able to select the Attack 08 for his actual encounter card, the Negotiate for his second, unaffected card, and end the encounter winning (or at least entering into a negotiation). Thoughts?
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Just a Bill
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Rogue42 wrote:
If Loser calls for an upset, Deuce should then be able to select the Attack 08 for his actual encounter card, the Negotiate for his second, unaffected card, and end the encounter winning (or at least entering into a negotiation). Thoughts?

I love it. Loser needs to choke on his own hairball once in awhile.

Oh, and I believe your interpretation is correct, too. ;-)
 
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