Recommend
5 
 Thumb up
 Hide
42 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » Recommendations

Subject: Games with less arbitrary ownership of pieces. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Joseph Arthur Ellis
United States
Ashland
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi all,

I remember when I first discovered euro- and other games that went beyond the old "roll and move" mechanic, yet weren't wargames. It was like a new world of board games was opened up to me.

But there are some mechanics that hobby games still share in common with the mainstream standbys, that no one ever questions. One I'd like to see questioned more is personal piece ownership.

Games like Settlers, Ticket to Ride, and most other board games and wargames include arbitrary ownership of pieces on the board. Each player is represented by a certain color, and when a player puts their colored pieces on the board, those pieces remain theirs. But isn't that somewhat convoluted? I dare say, if we weren't so used to this, it would seem a little silly that almost every game is like this.

It's the same with games like Agricola, Puerto Rico, etc., Why do I get this personal space and why is everything on it mine? Just because I put it there? There's nothing wrong with it, but it assumes an ownership that doesn't have to be included in every game.

I love games that mess with this assumption. Acquire certainly does, and you'll notice it always takes new players the first few turns to understand that they no longer own tiles once they play them. Chicago Express is similar (and of course the game in general has much in common with Acquire). Imperial removes the player from the ownership of the pieces, although all the pieces are still arbitrarily a color belonging to a different interest.

Some tile laying games like Scrabble remove the player from piece ownership to a point.

I would like to play/see more games where the assumption that I own these pieces 'cause the rules say so is punched in the face more. But I don't know of many.

They need not be like Acquire and Chicago Express. For example, I'm currently trying to create a game where the players are "sea gods" who are trying to control the ships and people that live on islands--causing them to worship, go to war, etc. But the idea is that the people are all the same. They're not various arbitrary colors to indicate whose people each set is. Instead, the players would have more limited piece ownership in the form of idols and temples to control the people all over the board by different means. All the people are the same; they are controlled by factors like proximity to idols, etc.

Can you suggest any more games that punch the assumption of personal piece ownership in the face?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Philip Lewis
United States
Boston
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Goldbrau handles ownership similarly to Acquire. There are a number of different competiting beer gardens that are expanded by the actions of the players, but ownership of the gardens is done by shares such that the primary owner of a garden can change over the course of the game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin Maggi
United States
Clifton Park
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The first thing that comes to my mind is Container. While there are personal spaces of ownership (ships, factories), the containers are themselves the coveted items and their ownership isn't determined until they hit the island. Until then, they can be bought and traded without the pretense of creation or ownership.

Is this what you are talking about?

What about 18xx games, where railroads are bought and sold based on stock values which change depending on ownership percentages?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Eisen
United States
Menlo Park
CA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Roads & Boats seems the champion of this. You own your transporters: wagons, boats, trucks. But all of the production capacity whether it is quarries, mines, or mints is shared and all the resources are just lying there for the taking, with the exception of the few that you have loaded on your wagons and on the back of your trucks.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
| Scott Kinzie |
United States
Denver
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Imperial and Imperial 2030 come to mind. You only "own" a country, and get to move its pieces, as long as you have the most stock in it.

Also, check out Clans. It's not exactly what you're talking about, but it does mess with your head regarding the "my pieces" and "your pieces" issue. In Clans, your player color is secret. So a player uses ALL the colors and secretly tries to set themselves up by playing ALL the colors... but in such a way that the other players don't suspect what color you "are".
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bwian, just
United States
Longmont
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Martian Chess tends to blow the minds of chess players: you own a section of the board, so any pieces on it now belong to you. Since you can only capture your opponents pieces by "giving" them one of your own, the dynamic is very different.

(Granted, Roads and Boats sounds more like what you're looking for. But Martian Chess was the first thing that popped in my head from the thread title.)
5 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan
United States
Bountiful
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Neuland also follows this to some degree. Buildings aren't owned by anyone, once you build a building anyone can use it.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Springer
United States
Brooklyn
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
On the lighter side, there's Ricochet Robots and Set.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Molnar
United States
Ridgewood
New Jersey
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Some people have a hard time with ZÈRTZ for this reason.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joseph Arthur Ellis
United States
Ashland
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dkeisen wrote:
Roads & Boats seems the champion of this. You own your transporters: wagons, boats, trucks. But all of the production capacity whether it is quarries, mines, or mints is shared and all the resources are just lying there for the taking, with the exception of the few that you have loaded on your wagons and on the back of your trucks.


Yes, this is the kind of thing I'm looking for. Although there are plenty of "majority holder controls" games, this is truly throwing the "every piece has an owner" idea out the window.

Too bad it is SO expensive!

Neuland really looks to feed that fire as well. Martian Chess, ZERTS, Ricochet Robots as well.

The robots reference also jogged my memory with Robotory.

The more I think about this concept the more I want to play more games that knock down the fences of "my color, my pieces."
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Springer
United States
Brooklyn
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Coming at it from another angle, there are games like Battlestar Galactica where you have a pawn that represents your location and a hand of cards, but these aren't really playing pieces.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Eisen
United States
Menlo Park
CA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
joepinion wrote:
dkeisen wrote:
Roads & Boats seems the champion of this. You own your transporters: wagons, boats, trucks. But all of the production capacity whether it is quarries, mines, or mints is shared and all the resources are just lying there for the taking, with the exception of the few that you have loaded on your wagons and on the back of your trucks.


Yes, this is the kind of thing I'm looking for. Although there are plenty of "majority holder controls" games, this is truly throwing the "every piece has an owner" idea out the window.

Too bad it is SO expensive!


As others have mentioned, Neuland fits the same model and is less expensive. It's also less good, of course. Roads and Boats is a fine fine game, one of the classics of our genre.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Łukasz
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
Non vi sed virtute, not armis sed arte paritur victoria.
badge
e^{i · π} + 1 = 0
Avatar
mb
joepinion wrote:
Can you suggest any more games that punch the assumption of personal piece ownership in the face?


In Steel Driver you do not own train companies but you do develop them. If you invest wisely, buying shares of those which prosper well, you win. But you never actually own company.

In Princes of the Renaissance you invest your money in cities without ever being their owner. Cities gain/lose prestige during wars (won/lost, respectively). More prestige, more VP your investments yield at the end of the game.

In Perikles you place your influence cubes in cities you want to rule (for a turn). You never own city. Other players may screw up your plans razing city down to the ground (similarly to PoTR I mentioned earlier).

In Liberté you support factions struggling to rule revolting France. As such, factions are never owned by players, they - players - just invest their support in one of three parties.

But please don't ask who is my favorite board game designer :-)

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Duffy
United States
Phoenixville
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Mr Worf.....Fire!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Masons
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Stevenson
United States
California
flag msg tools
mb
In Transamerica people lay rail, but it's all the same colour and anyone can use it.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Barlow
Canada
Stratford
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
badge
No one takes the time to read anymore.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Nobody owns the pieces in Quatro.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Klaus Brune
United States
Torrance
California
flag msg tools
badge
HEY! That TICKLES!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tigris & Euphrates is the first one that came to mind.... while there IS ownership (leader pieces), one of the first things that new players have to get used to is the fact that they do not OWN any given kingdom (even if they played all the tiles to build it), and different types of leaders may coexist in the same kingdom.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gláucio Reis
Brazil
Rio de Janeiro
RJ
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In Journey to the Center of the Earth and Celtica no player owns the playing pieces - explorers and druids, respectively - which can be moved by every player.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
matt feldman
United States
Maple Valley
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gruumsh wrote:
Tigris & Euphrates is the first one that came to mind.... while there IS ownership (leader pieces), one of the first things that new players have to get used to is the fact that they do not OWN any given kingdom (even if they played all the tiles to build it), and different types of leaders may coexist in the same kingdom.


this is the best example i could think of. T&E has great back and forth and instability of ownership.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Padget
United States
Claremont
California [CA]
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Quarto has already been mentioned. For such a simple game, it really messes with ownership, particularly with the twist that you decide which of the shared pieces I must play this turn.

Another good one is Court of the Medici. Cards are yours while they're in your deck, in your hand, the moment they're played, and for scoring. While a card is in play, the only question is whether is useful to you.

Reef Encounter also messes with ownership. The biggest mistake I've seen players make in that one is thinking of reefs as "theirs."
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dice bags!
United States
Wurtsboro
NY
flag msg tools
admin
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gheos
Goldland
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Stanley
United States
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Many of my favorite games don't have traditional ownership of pieces or places at all, or they let anyone use something, even if you technically own it (see my all-time favorite, Caylus Magna Carta).

But for fast, brilliant, challenging "different" ownership rules that no one has mentioned yet, you must play König von Siam.

Others that have been mentioned that I second as absolutely worth checking out:

molnar wrote:

joepinion wrote:

bapadget wrote:

bapadget wrote:

indigopotter wrote:
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Ferejohn
United States
Mountain View
California
flag msg tools
badge
Pitying fools as hard as I can...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Check out Gheos. Your game description sounds quite a bit like it (which is not a bad thing, it's vague enough that two substantially different and entertaining games could be made of it).

Tigris and Euphrates is also in the neighborhood, but you aren't gods, per se, just the ephemeral will of a certain culture. Also, in T&E, your leaders are still, well, yours, whereas in Gheos the "ownership" of worshippers is entirely transitory (though they are differentiated).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joseph Arthur Ellis
United States
Ashland
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cferejohn wrote:
Check out Gheos. Your game description sounds quite a bit like it (which is not a bad thing, it's vague enough that two substantially different and entertaining games could be made of it).


I definitely want to get my hands on Gheos now.

Thanks, everyone, for all the great ideas! You really helped me build a good wishlist!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
♬♪♪ ♫ ♩ ♫♫♪ ♩♬♪ ♫
Australia
MURRUMBEENA
Victoria
flag msg tools
badge
All reality is a game. Physics at its most fundamental, the very fabric of our universe, results directly from the interaction of certain fairly simple rules, and chance... (Iain Banks)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Union Pacific is another stock-control game where ownership of routes on the board is determined by off board share holdings. I think that a lot of "share" games fit your criteria. Imperial and 18xx have already been mentioned. Tobago is interesting. Players have a little SUV counter which moves about the island, collecting talismans and finding treasure. But the SUVs are the only element on the board that is specific to a particular player, and they are simply location markers. Much of the "ownership" is off-board with the treasure cards. Treasures mature and pay out to the people who contributed (i.e. shares pay to investors).

Worker-placement games feature boards which are used in common. Caylus adds the idea of players constructing features on the board (for points), but these become assets which can be used by everyone.

Finally, Amun-Re almost makes the cut. Monuments created in the first epoch are left on the board, and those areas might be bought by different players in the second epoch. But the spaces are owned, so it isn't what you are looking for. Excellent game, though.

-R
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.