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Subject: flood the nile and move... rss

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aaron belmer
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Ok, what if I get a nile and 3 ankh's. Can I still flood and then move a space? Or would I need to have 2 niles and 2 ankhs to flood and move a space?

thanks in advance!
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Darryl Boone
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I think players' consensus from other threads is that
(a) yes, you can flood and move a space in the same turn, but
(b) they are separate actions and so each action would need at least one die with the Nile face.
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aaron belmer
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sounds right, we've been playing incorrectly then, thanks very much for the quick reply!
 
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Patrick Arens
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Since flooding and moving constitute different actions and you have to apply your one nile to one of the two actions and not both (you cannot double use a die), you will need another nile in order to perform both actions.

The rules are clear that you cannot double apply a die and clear that an ankh must be coupled with an appropriate die to use it as wild.

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Scott
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kantpaper wrote:
Since flooding and moving constitute different actions and you have to apply your one nile to one of the two actions and not both (you cannot double use a die), you will need another nile in order to perform both actions.

The rules are clear that you cannot double apply a die and clear that an ankh must be coupled with an appropriate die to use it as wild.



That's how I understand it as well. With the above example, it would have to go like this..

Nile, Nile, Nile or Wild - to flood

then..

Nile to move one space

I don't believe one wild on it's own can be anything. And only one wild can be used per action.

 
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howl hollow howl
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To be clear:

4 ankhs = can neither flood nor advance
3 ankhs + nile = flood *or* advance four spaces
2 anks + 2 niles = flood + advance 1 space *or* advance 4 spaces

1 ankh + 3 niles and 4 niles are the same as 2 ankhs + 2 niles.
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Darryl Boone
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Midnight Rider wrote:
Nile, Nile, Nile or Wild - to flood
...only one wild can be used per action.


This is incorrect. So long as you have at least one Nile, you can use any combination of Niles and Ankhs beyond that to flood or to move forward. The consensus is that you do need at least one Nile per action, so you'd need at least two Niles to do two separate actions of flood and advance. But you aren't limited to one Ankh max per action.

You may be thinking of the monument or civ markers... yes, for each tier you can use only one ankh max, but that's only because you need the symbol of that track to place the extra marker. Monument + Ankh + Ankh is useless to put two cubes because you can only put cubes on the same colour as that of your Monument roll, so you need at least two Monuments.

But you can use Pharaoh + Ankh + Ankh to move three spaces on the pharaoh track, and likewise for the nile.
 
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Scott
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booned wrote:
Midnight Rider wrote:
Nile, Nile, Nile or Wild - to flood
...only one wild can be used per action.


This is incorrect. So long as you have at least one Nile, you can use any combination of Niles and Ankhs beyond that to flood or to move forward. The consensus is that you do need at least one Nile per action, so you'd need at least two Niles to do two separate actions of flood and advance. But you aren't limited to one Ankh max per action.

You may be thinking of the monument or civ markers... yes, for each tier you can use only one ankh max, but that's only because you need the symbol of that track to place the extra marker. Monument + Ankh + Ankh is useless to put two cubes because you can only put cubes on the same colour as that of your Monument roll, so you need at least two Monuments.

But you can use Pharaoh + Ankh + Ankh to move three spaces on the pharaoh track, and likewise for the nile.


Ok, I transfered your examples of the civ and monument sections over to the nile incorrectly. And to be clear... rolling one Pharaoh along with four wilds can move you 5 spaces on the Pharaoh track? Considered one action?

Now that I'm thinking about it, how many natural civs would be needed to be rolled to place 3 of them on a turn? I play it that 2 naturals plus a wild allow for one, then a natural is required for both the following two placements.

Whew... for a game I love, I get a little confused.



 
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H-B-G
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Midnight Rider wrote:


Now that I'm thinking about it, how many natural civs would be needed to be rolled to place 3 of them on a turn? I play it that 2 naturals plus a wild allow for one, then a natural is required for both the following two placements.



To place 1 civ you need 3 civ dice, 2 of which can be Ankhs and you place the civ on the colour corresponding to the natural die, so if you have already placed there you can't place a civ.

For 2 civs you need 4 civ dice (2 can be Ankhs), for 3 you need 5 (2 can be Ankhs). In both these cases you are still limited to placing on the colours for which you roll natural civs and can only place 1 cube per space.
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howl hollow howl
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DaveD wrote:

For 2 civs you need 4 civ dice (2 can be Ankhs), for 3 you need 5 (2 can be Ankhs). In both these cases you are still limited to placing on the colours for which you roll natural civs and can only place 1 cube per space.

In my (unreleased) PC version, ankhs automatically go into the light spaces of the civ and monument tracks (and cannot be moved to the dark spaces), and the game only allows dice on the dark spaces to be assigned.

As for niles, if there is but a single nile tile, the flood checkbox becomes enabled when you assign the second ankh, and disabled when you assign the third.

Just a little tip for whomever designs the inevitable iPhone version. laugh

 
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DaveD wrote:


To place 1 civ you need 3 civ dice, 2 of which can be Ankhs and you place the civ on the colour corresponding to the natural die, so if you have already placed there you can't place a civ.

For 2 civs you need 4 civ dice (2 can be Ankhs), for 3 you need 5 (2 can be Ankhs). In both these cases you are still limited to placing on the colours for which you roll natural civs and can only place 1 cube per space.


Ok, essentially, 2 ankhs + Nile are allowed for the first civ placement, but a natural is required for each additional placement (max 3 per turn). Essentialy 3 seperate steps?

I think I got it.
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Christopher Dearlove
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Midnight Rider wrote:
DaveD wrote:


To place 1 civ you need 3 civ dice, 2 of which can be Ankhs and you place the civ on the colour corresponding to the natural die, so if you have already placed there you can't place a civ.

For 2 civs you need 4 civ dice (2 can be Ankhs), for 3 you need 5 (2 can be Ankhs). In both these cases you are still limited to placing on the colours for which you roll natural civs and can only place 1 cube per space.


Ok, essentially, 2 ankhs + Nile are allowed for the first civ placement, but a natural is required for each additional placement (max 3 per turn). Essentialy 3 seperate steps?

I think I got it.


You need to replace Nile by Civilization in the last paragraph.
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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Dave wrote:
DaveD wrote:

For 2 civs you need 4 civ dice (2 can be Ankhs), for 3 you need 5 (2 can be Ankhs). In both these cases you are still limited to placing on the colours for which you roll natural civs and can only place 1 cube per space.

In my (unreleased) PC version, ankhs automatically go into the light spaces of the civ and monument tracks (and cannot be moved to the dark spaces), and the game only allows dice on the dark spaces to be assigned.

As for niles, if there is but a single nile tile, the flood checkbox becomes enabled when you assign the second ankh, and disabled when you assign the third.

Just a little tip for whomever designs the inevitable iPhone version. laugh



My first thought was that this wasn't the user interface I'd choose. The interface I think I'd prefer (but see below) would skip the intermediate step, and (after all the re-rolling and putting Suns on the Ra track) I'd click on where I wanted cubes to go (with boxes for flood and for double Ankh). As I did that, only boxes where I could click would be bold, others would be greyed. This requires more intelligence by the program. For example suppose I roll two Civilization and three Ankhs, ungreyed are two Civilization boxes (if not full) and the use two Ankhs box. As I click on one of the two Civilizations, the other Civilization and the double Ankh box are both ungreyed. I then click on one of those two and all is done. Note that I don't explicitly indicate that I used two Ankhs with my first click, I let the software work that out when I make the second click.

Am I saying this is a better interface? Not exactly. I'm saying it's a better interface for me (unless I've overlooked something - and I know I haven't discussed disasters) - I don't need to make explicit allocations, I know what I'm doing, and this is efficient. But I can see the beginner being quite puzzled by it - why did the program behave the way I just described?
 
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howl hollow howl
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Dearlove wrote:
My first thought was that this wasn't the user interface I'd choose.

Thanks for giving feedback on a program only I play. laugh

In the example you described, my program would require 2-4 clicks depending on how you wanted things assigned. I like the idea of getting it down to fewer clicks. I went with an interface that was closer to playing the actual game (the game has some intelligence to help, like sorting the civs so that the available ones are promoted first).

I think the approach I'll consider is to *not* have a "double ankhs" box, but add more OnClick handling (e.g., the civ spaces) and have the UI automatically assign ankhs and sort out the assignment to match what was selected. No reason I cannot have both behaviors...
 
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Dave wrote:
Dearlove wrote:
My first thought was that this wasn't the user interface I'd choose.

Thanks for giving feedback on a program only I play. laugh


It's a game I take an interest in. And it's a vaguely interesting academic (as in I won't actually use the answer) question.

Quote:
In the example you described, my program would require 2-4 clicks depending on how you wanted things assigned. I like the idea of getting it down to fewer clicks. I went with an interface that was closer to playing the actual game (the game has some intelligence to help, like sorting the civs so that the available ones are promoted first).

I think the approach I'll consider is to *not* have a "double ankhs" box, but add more OnClick handling (e.g., the civ spaces) and have the UI automatically assign ankhs and sort out the assignment to match what was selected. No reason I cannot have both behaviors...


You're right. Given that in order to allow an Undo feature (I for one sometimes misclick) you need an "I'm done" box, that can serve the purpose of "and give me as many 2 point bonuses as you can given what I've chosen to score".

Which leads to the question what's the range of clicks for this interface for the scoring? Not counting the "done" box I think it ranges from zero (three Suns, two Civilizations) to four (I think there's just the one four case - scoring two Monuments, one Pharaoh, one Nile).

That (and other cases) can be reduced if the program is allowed to your obvious allocation. For example Nile, Pharaoh, three Monuments, the only question is which two monuments. The worst case is Nile, Pharaoh, two Monuments and an Ankh, but even that only takes two clicks if they are first on two monuments. But this is getting maybe a little too clever.

And when it comes to the difficult bits, like an AI, you're on your own there.

 
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howl hollow howl
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Dearlove wrote:
Which leads to the question what's the range of clicks for this interface for the scoring?


As it is today, I think 8 clicks: 3 monuments, 1 ankh, 1 pharoah/nile. You need 2 clicks to assign the ankh, up to 4 clicks to order the monuments just so (as you can only place monuments for dice in dark purple spaces, and the first dark purple space is for the monument that can go into an already occupied column, then 2 clicks to place the monuments. Given your ideas, I can enhance it to get that all down to 2 clicks.

Edit: Five natural monuments could require up to 9 clicks: 6 to order, and 3 to place.

(Two other things not clear from that image: disaster selection is the drop-down list next to the suns; # of floods is indicated by the shade of blue in the nile score.)
 
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