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Dominion: Alchemy» Forums » Rules

Subject: Potions - what's the official word on them? rss

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Vince Lupo
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Is there anything official about potions yet?
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dale yu
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Nope - keep your eyes at the Rio Grande website -- any information about Alchemy should be released by Jay through his website.

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Dale
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Bill Barksdale
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Neo42 wrote:
Is there anything official about potions yet?


Potions have not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration for the treatment of any disease or condition. Results may vary. Consult your doctor before taking potions.
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Matt Tonks
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wcbarksdale wrote:

Potions have not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration for the treatment of any disease or condition. Results may vary. Consult your doctor before taking potions.


Hmmm. Have you just given a spoiler of sorts here? Such as that if you take a Potion, you risk also taking a Curse somehow?
 
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Drew Spencer
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wcbarksdale wrote:
Neo42 wrote:
Is there anything official about potions yet?


Potions have not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration for the treatment of any disease or condition. Results may vary. Consult your doctor before taking potions.


Sure, but that's not going to stop RGG from making so-called "structure/function" claims. Yes, I'm sure potions "boost your immune system" whatever that means. We don't need their snake oil.
 
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Joe C Faust
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Side effects of Potions may include dry mouth, blurred vision, hair loss, nightmares, heart palpitations, sweating, nausea, diarrhea, incontinence, impotence, hallucinations, fever, chills, night terrors, green teeth, black tongue, and IRS audits.

Ask your FLGS if Potions are right for you.
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Joshua Michalik
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So this is all theoretical but I've been thinking about how potions will be used. Some people seem to think that you must have potions in order to purchase the cards from the Alchemy set. I don't think that would make sense. After 3 whole sets of cards, why would they have a few new cards that must be bought through another card, cluttering up the deck and taking at minimum 2 turns to buy an Alchemy card (1:buy potion, 2:shuffle deck, draw a potion, buy an Alchemy card with potion). Though it may be how this plays out, I don't seem to believe this is what will happen. I can see 2 scenarios.

1: Potion is not considered a kingdom card.
Whenever Alchemy kingdom cards are in play, instead of the starting deck being 3 Estates & 7 Copper, maybe 3 Estates, 5 Copper, and 2 Potions (to enable up to 8 people playing at 2 tables with only 1 Alchemy set since there are 16 potions included).

2: Potion is considered a kingdom card.
When the 10 random kingdom cards are chosen and revealed, if one of them is potion, then it is set aside by the treasures and a new 11th kingdom card is revealed.

Any thoughts or is everyone confused?

P.S. Sorry for the thread hijack, I hope official answers come out of this.
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Matt E
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Well, we've had it confirmed that Potion is definitely not a Kingdom card. It's a Treasure card that's always in the supply when you play with Alchemy. I believe we've also had it confirmed that you do need Potion cards to buy some if not all of the Kingdom cards in Alchemy. I'm not 100% on that last bit.

I'm hoping there's more to it than this. If that's all there is to the mechanic, then I'm worried it'll be more annoying than fun. However, Dominion's track record has been so good thus far that I'm willing to bet there is more to it than this. I eagerly await further details.
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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LastFootnote wrote:
Well, we've had it confirmed that Potion is definitely not a Kingdom card. It's a Treasure card that's always in the supply when you play with Alchemy. I believe we've also had it confirmed that you do need Potion cards to buy some if not all of the Kingdom cards in Alchemy. I'm not 100% on that last bit.

I'm hoping there's more to it than this. If that's all there is to the mechanic, then I'm worried it'll be more annoying than fun. However, Dominion's track record has been so good thus far that I'm willing to bet there is more to it than this. I eagerly await further details.


Well saying that a potion is only for buying certain cards is like saying that a copper is only for adding +1 coin or an estate is just a 1 VP card, but both coppers and estates are specifically mentioned on other cards (i.e. Moneylender, Baron, etc.)
Even if the basic purpose of a potion is just to buy certain cards, I would expect certain Alchemy's kingdom cards to interact with potions specifically. The charm of Dominion is that the basic rules are fairly simple. Potions should be no exception. It's the variety of kingdom cards that spice things up!
 
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Vince Lupo
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Perhaps certain cards are cheaper with a potion OR potions can also act as money. In the second option, it could be like a 1 potion/2 coins card that costs 4 to buy.
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Henri Harju
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Neo42 wrote:
Perhaps certain cards are cheaper with a potion OR potions can also act as money. In the second option, it could be like a 1 potion/2 coins card that costs 4 to buy.

This is my best guess at the moment. It'll be like harem, but with 2 coins/1 potion split instead of 2 coins/2 VPs. Possibly you need to choose which part to use or you just use both.
 
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Matt E
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Henkka wrote:
Neo42 wrote:
Perhaps certain cards are cheaper with a potion OR potions can also act as money. In the second option, it could be like a 1 potion/2 coins card that costs 4 to buy.

This is my best guess at the moment. It'll be like harem, but with 2 coins/1 potion split instead of 2 coins/2 VPs. Possibly you need to choose which part to use or you just use both.

Yeah, this had occurred to me as well. When I heard it rumored that Potion did cost 4, I theorized that it might also give 2 Coins when played.

I'm kind of wondering exactly when Potion cards will become part of the supply, according to the rules. If there are no Alchemy cards on the table, seems like your opponent could use Swindler to essentially give you an overpriced Silver. Although it also means you could Remodel Potion into Gold...

But I'm thinking too far ahead. We'll find out more soon.
 
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Brendon Faithfull
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The official words on "Potion" are these..

–noun
a drink or draft, esp. one having or reputed to have medicinal, poisonous, or magical powers: a love potion; a sleeping potion.

Synonyms: elixir, brew, concoction, philter

Origin: 1300–50; ME pocion < L pōtiōn- (s. of pōtiō) a drinking, equiv. to pōt(us), var. of pōtātus, ptp. of pōtāre to drink + -iōn- -ion; r. ME pocioun < AF < L, as above

I think they're also going to be a card in the next Dominion set, though.
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wodan wodan
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For Potions to not horribly dilute one's deck, they are almost certainly either give Money as well, or Potions count as Money.

I'd say that Cost=4: 1 Potion, 2 Money, would work best.

Doing so means that you can add Potions to your buying power without hurting your overall treasure, for the meager price of going from a 3 coster to 4 coster.
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Matt Lernout
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...or perhaps they are "permanent" treasures that stay in your play area once purchased and don't even become part of your deck?

The various alchemical mixtures could all require having X total potions in play to use, or might have varying effects based on how many you own.

(Got to love random speculation, right?)
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Wei-Hwa Huang
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Actually all the rumors are based on an early release version that had a typo in it. In reality, the game doesn't have Potions, it has "Pot ions". See, Alchemists need to have a big pot to mix their chemicals in, and those pots are made out of small elementary particles called ions. In the game, if you collect enough of these Pot ions, you can then build a pot. Then you can start doing Alchemy. The game also comes with Beaker ions, Flask ions, Brimbor ions, and Decept ions.
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Cameron McKenzie
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If a potion gives 2 coin and costs 4 then I just worry that it would make silver obsolete. The only reason to ever buy silver is if you have exactly 3 coin to spend. It doesn't happen that often and it basically just makes potion the new silver when playing with useful alchemy cards.

I think +1 coin is much more likely. It won't become a "staple" in your deck like silver -- you will only use it in order to get specific cards or to utilize certain interactions.
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wodan wodan
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MasterDinadan wrote:
If a potion gives 2 coin and costs 4 then I just worry that it would make silver obsolete. The only reason to ever buy silver is if you have exactly 3 coin to spend. It doesn't happen that often and it basically just makes potion the new silver when playing with useful alchemy cards.

It would, but I'm not sure I if I have problems with that. Potions can't be too hard to get.

Making a 2 coster 1 Potion+1 Coin card is possible, but given that Coppers often get trashed, it seems rather limited in use.
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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It depends on how useful the potion symbol is. We really don't know that, but it's not necessarily problematic if potions are situationally useful -- that means you should only put a small number in your deck unless you have some specific strategy that involves a lot.

Considering that there are only 16 potions, I can't imagine that the intention is for you to buy up a whole lot of them. I just can't see potions being the new silver. Presumably potions will be useful enough that they won't need to "replicate" existing treasure cards to be worth buying, but I guess it really depends on how useful they really are.
 
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Vince Lupo
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MasterDinadan wrote:
It depends on how useful the potion symbol is. We really don't know that, but it's not necessarily problematic if potions are situationally useful -- that means you should only put a small number in your deck unless you have some specific strategy that involves a lot.

Considering that there are only 16 potions, I can't imagine that the intention is for you to buy up a whole lot of them. I just can't see potions being the new silver. Presumably potions will be useful enough that they won't need to "replicate" existing treasure cards to be worth buying, but I guess it really depends on how useful they really are.


Makes me wonder. If it is required to buy certain cards AND provides no coin on it's own, then will it feel sort of like magic in the "damn I could really use a black land right now"? I guess that won't matter too much though, because of how fast it can be to cycle the cards in the deck and how many cards you can cycle in a turn sometimes.

Another thought: perhaps chapel will become even more useful now. :)
I guess it'd be something like turns 1 and 2: buy silver and chapel. Turn 3, buy a potion, turn 4 chapel some copper/estates out. Turn 5, buy an alchemy card.
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Matt E
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Neo42 wrote:
If it is required to buy certain cards AND provides no coin on it's own, then will it feel sort of like magic in the "damn I could really use a black land right now"? I guess that won't matter too much though, because of how fast it can be to cycle the cards in the deck and how many cards you can cycle in a turn sometimes.

The major difference here is that, unlike Magic, you don't keep your hand from turn to turn. Also, you have a base hand size of five cards, not seven. So it seems that it'll be that much harder to get the coins you need and the potions you need in your hand at the same time. Perhaps Alchemy cards that require Potions to buy will have a low coin cost?
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Kyle Whipple
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onigame wrote:
Actually all the rumors are based on an early release version that had a typo in it. In reality, the game doesn't have Potions, it has "Pot ions". See, Alchemists need to have a big pot to mix their chemicals in, and those pots are made out of small elementary particles called ions. In the game, if you collect enough of these Pot ions, you can then build a pot. Then you can start doing Alchemy. The game also comes with Beaker ions, Flask ions, Brimbor ions, and Decept ions.


I expect each of these types of "ions" will have their own metal token and associated mat that will justify them bumping the game up to a higher price point.
 
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Alon Altman
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I think potions might be treasures that you need to trash in order to use, but don't require actions.
i.e.

Potion: cost 4, worth 2 treasure, may trash in the buy phase for +1 potion (not an action).

Some alchemy cards will cost potions instead of (or in addition to) coins.
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Scott Ames
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epsalon wrote:
I think potions might be treasures that you need to trash in order to use, but don't require actions.
i.e.

Potion: cost 4, worth 2 treasure, may trash in the buy phase for +1 potion (not an action).

Some alchemy cards will cost potions instead of (or in addition to) coins.


What I think is funny is that I can now Mine for potions. Guess its like drilling for oil.
 
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Sean McCarthy
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I think it's funny that people think cards will do something other than what is printed on them.
 
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