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Subject: Playtesting - Treasure Fleet rss

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Mike Tomashewski
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Hi guys,

In a prior post, I listed some home-made cards that I wanted to eventually use for my blanks. But first, testing was needed.

I'm going to use this thread to post results and changes of playtest sessions. Feel free to add your own suggestions/results!

=================================

The version I tested was a little different than the one seen above, since I mocked it up before getting all the comments.

The main differences are that it had a 6 card stacking limit, and it only required you to stack one per turn.

We played some games with it last night (all 2P, various kingdom setups) and had the following thoughts:

-It is a card that you only want to buy one of... it reminded us of some of the higher cost cards like Adventurer, Library etc.
-It shines if +coin is available. One of the games did not feature virtual coin and the stacking cost was definitely more painful.
-It seemed underpriced for the potential of setting up a 2 province turn down the road.
-The one per turn stack was generally not too painful. Annoying, but not too harsh. There we some turns where I chose to do nothing but stack, and that was ok.
-The 6 card limit wasn't needed, as was posted. This card has a built in timer in a sense in that while you thin yourself of coin it gets harder to stack.
-the two treasure per turn idea (while not played) was in our mind. Every time we stacked we remarked if we could do it with two. That makes the card almost impossible to use, especially on the first turn treasure fleet is played. You likely would be able to stack for 1-2 turns max before taking the money into hand.
-the time this is out is really nice since you can wait until you get a card with a +buy in order to maximize its return. We likened this to the Tactician in as much as you are devoting resources from one turn to make a future turn even better, but it takes much longer typically.
-It does need some text about what it does at the end of the game if its not "full". We had a game w/ Gardens where you would want those cards back in your deck at game's end.

So given all that, we are using the following text for round 2

Quote:
Treasure Fleet
Action-Duration
Cost 5

Now and at the start of each turn this card is on the table, may stack one Treasure card from hand here. If you do not, take all cards stacked here into hand and discard this card at end of this turn.



Depending how that goes, I might try the card as mocked up above to see if that weakens it too much.

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Steven Metzger
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It's not very clear. Try writing it so that those of us unfamiliar with the card understand precisely what it does. The lack of possessive nouns (like "you" and "your") is jarring, to say the least.

Quote:
Treasure Fleet
Action-Duration
Cost 5

Now and at the start of each turn this card is on the table, may stack one Treasure card from hand here. If you do not, take all cards stacked here into hand and discard this card at end of this turn.


You're better off creating a Treasure Fleet mat and using that instead of adding new terminology like "stack."
 
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Mike Tomashewski
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Ugh... I despise the mats. I felt that in most of the mat cases that cards themselves could have worked out fine and Dominion could have remained a pure card game... but that's neither here nor there.

I could certainly use the more familiar "set aside" phrase and just have players set aside on the card itself.

The phraseology is rough for sure, but here's a version that is as explicit as I can make it. If this makes the final cut I'll definitely have to refine it to match printer cards' verbiage.

Quote:
Treasure Fleet
Action-Duration
Cost 5

Now and at the start of each turn this Treasure Fleet is on the table:
You may set aside one Treasure card from hand on this Treasure Fleet. If you do not, you take all cards set aside on this Treasure Fleet into hand and discard this Treasure Fleet at end of this turn. Return this Treasure Fleet and all cards set aside here to your deck at the end of the game.



But that's really really bad. I think I can address your concern about clarity w/ a few pos. nouns.

Quote:
Treasure Fleet
Action-Duration
Cost 5

Now and at the start of each turn this card is on the table:
You may set aside one Treasure card from hand on this card. If you do not, you take all cards set aside here into hand and discard this card at the end of this turn. Return this card and all cards set aside here to your deck at the end of the game.




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Greg Filpus
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Shewski wrote:
Ugh... I despise the mats. I felt that in most of the mat cases that cards themselves could have worked out fine and Dominion could have remained a pure card game... but that's neither here nor there.


Yeah. Also makes multiple Treasure Fleets double stack rather than single stack.

In terms of style, we really want to be matching Haven- it doesn't specify "on this card" to save words, it just recommends you do it in the FAQ. Here's my edit with that in mind, also using "in play" from Seaside and imperatives when an action is required:

Quote:
Treasure Fleet
Action-Duration
Cost 5

Now and at the start of each turn this card is in play:
You may set aside one Treasure card from your hand. If you do not, take all cards set aside in this way into your hand and discard this card at the end of this turn. Return this card and all cards set aside in this way to your deck at the end of the game.


I still think we can trim "discard this card at the end of this turn" somehow, since the default rule for Durations is that they go away when they no longer have an effect.

(I feel like we could do an entire "Copyedit your variant cards" or "Card writing style" thread.)
 
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Mike Tomashewski
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Got some more games in with this at the cost of 5 last night.

-5 seems really "right" as a cost for this. It made a lot of difference that it wasn't a guaranteed first two turn buy.
-This card's power is directly proportional to the number of buys you have available. In one game with no +buys on the board, it was not bought until mid game.
-Even in cases like the one mentioned above, it still has its uses. The most effective use was allowing you to glut yourself on point cards mid game and then use this late game to save up for a province buy. (depending if your opponents let you take the time to do it, of course)

It seems like it getting to be pretty balanced. It's situationally useful, and in some setups it shines, much like some of the other 5 cost cards.


Quote:
Treasure Fleet
Action-Duration
Cost 5

Now and at the start of each turn this card is in play:
You may set aside one Treasure card from your hand. If you do not, take all cards set aside in this way into your hand and discard this card at the end of this turn. Return this card and all cards set aside in this way to your deck at the end of the game.


I like the Haven wording, good idea.

I think that clarity w/ this card is a good thing since it's not a 1 turn duration, but depending on your preference you could certainly issue a FAQ with it that clarifies when it stops working and what happens to it at the end of the game. I was surprised to see that Haven's FAQ didn't describe what happened to it if the game ended.

 
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Coleman Ellis

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Looks like a good card, but one thing about the design:
If it's a duration card, shouldn't the top and bottom be orange, not white?
 
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Mike Tomashewski
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I did mod the card that Runehardy/Bobby Doran created to make it an orange card, and updated the text a little.

I'm pretty happy w/ where it is currently, but now I'm just going to mix this in w/ the other kingdom cards and get impressions of it (if it needs mildly boosted/weakened) in a more "normal" game environment.
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Magnus Nyberg
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I just printed this and will try it shortly.

Edit: Worked very well the 3 times we tried it.
 
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